00:02

Speaker 1

Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Shaman Talk. My name is Rhonda, and I'm your host. And this week we have another guest. You will have heard from Wendy before. Wendy is my sister and a medical herbalist and a shamanic practitioner, and we work together quite a lot. Wendy's in our membership as one of the faculty. Because you're the herb lady, right?

00:23

Speaker 2

I am indeed.

00:24

Speaker 1

Today, and Wendy also runs her own center. You will find her wendydooner.com, in case I forget to mention that later when she talks about all things plant spirit medicine, which is what we're really going to get into today. Have lots of questions, Wendy, so thank you for joining me again.

00:40

Speaker 2

Thanks for inviting me.

00:41

Speaker 1

The last time you were on the podcast, you were still training

00:44

Speaker 2

Seems like such a long time ago.

00:45

Speaker 1

Such a long time ago. But remind people who've already heard this story and those who don't know how you ended up in herbal medicine in the first place. And then actually, how did you end up in shamanism as well?

00:57

Speaker 2

Okay, this would probably fill up most of your podcast. Hi, everybody. Thank you for listening. So I had always wanted to be a nurse growing up. I remember I had a real sort of urge to care for people, for humans. And when it came time to decide what I wanted to do after high school, I wanted to do nursing. My mom and dad said, that's too mainstream. Best university has just started this new course, this herbal medicine course. Perhaps you might like to try that. And at that point, I was deeply in pleasing my parents mode. So I was like, yeah, sure. I had no idea what herbal medicine was like. Zero. I had never considered it. I liked flowers, but it was never a passion. So I did this four year course. I did quite well.

01:44

Speaker 2

I graduated with an honors bachelor of science, and I had a two year clinical placement. After that, opened my own business, and off I went. And that was 20 years ago. That was 20 years ago. It was 2005 that I graduated.

01:59

Speaker 3

Yeah.

02:00

Speaker 2

So it'll be 20 years next year that I graduated.

02:01

Speaker 3

Yeah.

02:02

Speaker 2

That's crazy.

02:02

Speaker 1

Yeah.

02:03

Speaker 2

And then it was ten years of real science, nerdy digging the clinical physiology of l health. Because I'm a nerd, right? I love working out what causes things. Like, I like to track things back to the root cause. And that was great. But then there came a point in my life, and I talk about this a bit on Instagram and my other channels. I had all this sort of traditional trappings of success. Busy practice, husband, children, car, house. But there was this. I can only describe it as an emptiness. Honestly, inside of me, I was like, there's got to be something more. And at that point had completely turned my back on anything spiritual.

02:49

Speaker 1

So I'm going to interject. You remember when I started to tell you about my shamanic path? You thought I was having a psychotic break. I thought you were crazy.

02:57

Speaker 3

Yeah.

02:58

Speaker 1

I always think that's a really funny thing to add in at this point in your story.

03:01

Speaker 2

And now here we are. Genuinely, I remember thinking, what? Shaman. Shamanism? I don't even know how to say this word. And it made me so angry. And of course, now I realize that when I get angry about certain things, it's usually because there's something in there to look at. So, yeah, Rhonda, I'm not quite sure.

03:23

Speaker 1

You were still in Australia and dad had died, and I was like, oh, I need to find something else to help myself. So I ended up accidentally in shamanism and then started, as you do when you get into new things, or I do, you're like, you should try this. This is amazing. And read this book and user all like, you're crazy.

03:41

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, thank you. Because that was 2014, right? Or 15.

03:45

Speaker 1

2014, yeah. I started my training and you were still in Australia doing the suburban housewife thing.

03:51

Speaker 2

Deeply suburban housewife. I had the suv, I had the white picket fence.

03:56

Speaker 1

So shiny.

03:57

Speaker 2

I was so shiny, but was so much. I talk about that with Josh. That's my husband. We're very open about it. And so there was this, like, yearning inside me, and I wasn't aware that it was a yearning until I moved back here. So, 2018, we'd sold our house, sold out everything. We moved back from Australia to here, and I landed kind of a broken person. I didn't realize that at the time, but what I was actually going through was a mental health breakdown. But I was so disassociated and numb, I didn't realize that's what was happening. And then I also kind of accidentally ended up training in shamanism. I woke up. That's kind of what happens to me. I just wake up one morning and I'm like, oh, I have to do this. And I'm like, okay, I'll do it.

04:42

Speaker 2

And so then I signed up for Carl's course, and I fell pregnant.

04:45

Speaker 1

That's right.

04:46

Speaker 2

Do my training whilst pregnant. This two or three year course. I can't even remember how long it was now, but that's what really cracked me open. So I really classify my herbal medicine story in two parts. I've got part one, which was deep dive into science. And I've got part two, which I'm still in, which is bringing the magic and the spirit back in herbal medicine through shamanism. And so that really brings us to now, is that like real journey into. Because that's the point about herbal medicine. There was this drive for legitimacy. The industry as a whole wants to be seen to be doing the right thing, following the science. But what they did, I feel when following the science is they threw out all the magic.

05:34

Speaker 3

Yeah. Okay.

05:35

Speaker 2

And all of the spirituality, and that's what I'm trying to bring back in as a herbalist. Great.

05:43

Speaker 1

So would you say that in this process of merging, let's call it merging shamanism and herbalism together, which is the way it always would have been, right?

05:53

Speaker 3

Yes.

05:53

Speaker 1

Not like this groundbreaking it was for you, but not necessarily less is the way it would always have been and should probably be. But do you feel like you lost anything in the process of merging them back together for yourself?

06:06

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's a really good question, and I need to rewind a little bit to answer that.

06:12

Speaker 3

Okay.

06:13

Speaker 2

When I first moved back from Australia in 2018, I joined a regulatory body called the CPP, which is the college of practitioners of phytotherapy. They're a great company. They do a lot to advance the science of herbal medicine.

06:27

Speaker 1

And you had to work hard, and.

06:29

Speaker 2

I had to work hard to get into there to show them that I was qualified enough, that I'd done enough continual professional development, that I was up to date enough to become a member. And I worked so hard to get in there. And when I got there, I was like, I've landed, I'm here, I've done it. I'm legitimate. But what actually turned out to be the case was I was not allowed to merge shamanism and herbalism and still be a member of the CPP, of that regulatory body. They very clearly told me that if I wished to continue practicing as a herbalist, I couldn't also practice as a shaman. They had to be clear, they had to be separate. I couldn't even talk about shamanism on my herbalism website.

07:19

Speaker 1

And it's interesting that the language was, you can't practice herbalism like they have some sort of autonomy over what we can and cannot do.

07:27

Speaker 2

And that's actually not the case in the UK. You don't have to belong to these bodies to practice. You have to have a degree or a qualification to get insurance, of course, but you don't have to belong to the regulatory body to practice. And so what I lost was I lost my membership to the CPP. And it was a really hard decision to leave them because I felt vulnerable again. Honestly, I felt like, oh, maybe I'm not actually legitimate anymore. I don't have these three letters after my name, CPP. And it took me a little while, maybe six months, before I realized that it sort of points back to the story of stealing the fire.

08:07

Speaker 2

You ever heard those stories where in these traditional stories, a person would walk a path that everybody else told them was the wrong path, and then they would find something of worth on this path and they would bring it back, but they would be punished for it. There would be some loss in that journey. It's called a steal and fire stories. There's lots of them. And I really felt like that was part of what was going on for me. The CPP, I felt, were punishing me for returning to the traditional form of herbalism. So I did. I lost the membership of the CPP, and some actually quite good friends that are made through that.

08:49

Speaker 1

That was quite a tough transition to make, wasn't it? Was like you sacrificed something of value for something of even more value. And that's the hardest sacrifice to make.

09:00

Speaker 2

I think it was really hard because in my mind, I thought, that doesn't actually need to be this way, because I'm still using scientific papers for research. If you know me, you know that if I've got spare time, I'm not reading a book, that's fiction, I'm reading a research paper. And so, honestly, it was just frustrating that we couldn't move forward as an industry into a more holistic view, because herbal medicine, they say that we're holistic, and we are more holistic than the traditional medical, the mainstream medical healthcare model. But I don't think we're holistic enough. Yeah, we're missing out big pieces of the pie.

09:43

Speaker 1

And when you added those pieces of the pie back in, did it make a big difference to your practice? Did it make a big difference to your clients?

09:52

Speaker 2

It's a good question. So, first off, what it did for me was it opened me up to magic and meaning, and it was a really slow process. But what I've found it's done is it's enabled me to. I'm connected with nature in such a way that it doesn't matter what's happening in my life, whether it's uncertainty over finances or children being ill, I'm still able to find a calm and joyful space amongst all of that chaos because of my nature and my spiritual connection to nature. I found it has brought me back to myself, ultimately.

10:35

Speaker 1

Lovely. All right, let's lighten the load a little bit. This is going to be a hard question, actually. Do you have a favorite?

10:46

Speaker 2

It's like asking if you've got a favorite child. Of course I don't. I love them all, my children, equally.

10:53

Speaker 1

I have a favorite herb.

10:54

Speaker 2

Yeah, I know what your herb is. I'm going to guess, is it rose or owners, too? It's time.

11:01

Speaker 1

I don't think about Rose as a herb in my head, even though that's probably wrong, I think about that as a flower. So rose is my favorite flower and time is my favorite herb.

11:09

Speaker 3

Yeah.

11:09

Speaker 2

Well, rose is also deeply medicinal.

11:11

Speaker 1

And it isn't it?

11:11

Speaker 3

Yeah.

11:12

Speaker 1

You make me drink it recently for various things.

11:15

Speaker 2

Lots of.

11:17

Speaker 3

Yes.

11:17

Speaker 2

So I do have a few favourite herbs. So top of the list for me is primrose, which is primula vulgaris. And primrose is a really beautiful little yellow flower, grows here in the north, starts to grow. It's one of the first flowers after snowdrop to grow. And it's also called the key flower because the spirit medicine of primrose helps to open you up to what comes next. There's a whole story behind my journey with primrose, and there's something in there about timing, and it has to be the right time for you to discover these things. So primrose is number one and probably yarrow number two. And then it just depends what herb I'm working with. So at the moment, I'm writing a monograph, which is like a collection of all the information one herb. I'm writing a monograph on dandelion.

12:04

Speaker 1

I love dandelion.

12:05

Speaker 2

Dandelion is like the top of my list right now.

12:07

Speaker 1

That's great.

12:08

Speaker 3

Yeah.

12:08

Speaker 2

Because it's grown.

12:11

Speaker 1

I'm determined this year to make, to do my two things.

12:15

Speaker 2

What was it?

12:15

Speaker 1

So last year, I really wanted to make a salad with dandelion. I did manage to do that. And then I collected some flowers after May so that the bees could get the pollen because they're one of the first flowers to flower, so we need to leave them in May. And then, so I collected some heads in June, and I was going to do that deep fried thing.

12:36

Speaker 3

Yeah.

12:36

Speaker 1

But then I found them on the window.

12:38

Speaker 2

Silly, excited.

12:41

Speaker 1

And then there was like 40 flower heads just dried. Like up, shriveled up on the.

12:46

Speaker 2

I bet you know what happened, because when they keep drying, they turn into the little fluffy seed pods.

12:50

Speaker 1

All right.

12:51

Speaker 2

Then change from those yellow flowers into those seed pods. The seed pods.

12:55

Speaker 1

So the kids had a good time blowing them about the sunroom.

12:59

Speaker 2

Well, I want to work with dandelion flowers this year. I'm going to make infused oil. That's a really old remedy for muscle aches and pains and joint aches. Specifically, if there's tension. Like, if you're somebody that's like, oh, it's so tense, so tight, and you have injuries from.

13:15

Speaker 1

I don't need that.

13:16

Speaker 2

You definitely don't need that. I definitely do need that.

13:19

Speaker 1

Will it help with your skating when you fall, when you're doing five foot drop ins like the other day?

13:25

Speaker 3

Yeah.

13:25

Speaker 1

You're sorry.

13:28

Speaker 2

Like, I've got a bruise now. I've got a few giant bruises. And I still, like, legitimately for those listening at home and not watching, I'm, like, wincing as I sit on the chair because I hit the ground so hard, even with paddied.

13:42

Speaker 1

Did you put it on instagram?

13:44

Speaker 2

I didn't put the slam on, no. I might.

13:49

Speaker 1

We can do. Maybe if you felt comfortable, we could put it in the.

13:53

Speaker 2

Oh, because, you know, there's a story, Rhonda. Okay, so the thing that got me over the literal edge of the drop in. So if you don't know what skateboarding drop ins are, you're standing on the edge of a drop, looking down, and you literally fall over the edge and your wheels catch the wall and you skate off at speed. But the thing that got me over the edge was this old traditional folk remedy where you would grasp nettle and yarrow in your hand to give you courage.

14:20

Speaker 3

Right? Right.

14:21

Speaker 2

Now, some people might say grasping nettle is a courageous act in and of itself because it's really prickly and jaggy. But I didn't have access to the fresh herbs where I was skating, so I just called them to mind, and that was what finally got me over the edge and calling in Morgan. I called in the Morgan, she'll help you over. She was like, get over the edge. Just push you basically was. What happened on my butthole. Sorry.

14:52

Speaker 1

Oh, so funny. That's interesting. Our guides can help us with all types of things. All things. And plants are guides.

14:59

Speaker 2

Exactly.

15:01

Speaker 1

All right, so let's take a wee segue. We've been talking a lot recently about perimenopause and menopause. I'm 43.

15:07

Speaker 2

You're 41 yet I am p 42 this year. 42 this year.

15:11

Speaker 1

So you're 41? I'm 43. Still just about 44.

15:17

Speaker 2

Nearly 43.

15:20

Speaker 1

So anyway, I've been noticing a lot of changes in myself, like, little things that I'm like, oh, yeah, it's definitely happening for me. And we've been talking about it and supporting ourselves and stuff. So talk about it. What do women face and what should give us some, I don't know, just talk about it in the way that you encyclopedically talk about things.

15:39

Speaker 2

Hopefully not boringly encyclopedically.

15:41

Speaker 1

No, you're not boring. I'll give you a wee nod.

15:44

Speaker 2

Give me a wee tap. Right, wendy. Okay, so again, this starts with a story. So when I first moved back here, I was 38. I was beginning to feel some changes in my body, and I wasn't really sure what they were, even as a qualified herbalist. And I went out for a walk one day, and I sat underneath an oak tree, and I just opened up sobbing, crying. It felt like it came on from nowhere. And what I was going through in that moment was I was like, I don't have an elder to tell me what I'm going through. What is this that has overtaken my body? Where are the women to tell me that this is okay and to help me through it? And that oak tree, that was my cracking open moment. That was one of them.

16:36

Speaker 2

And I remember speaking to Josh about it. And so at that moment, I thought, there is nobody that can help me. So I need to find out some information. And what I do when I need to find information is I deep dive into the research. Like my dad used to say, you're like a dog with a bone. Except he would say, a dog weigh a bone.

16:56

Speaker 3

Nice.

16:56

Speaker 1

Yeah, like a dog weigh a bone.

16:58

Speaker 2

From the west coast. And I dived into research about. I called it the menopause. I hadn't even heard the term in peri menopause at that point.

17:07

Speaker 1

And that's interesting, just as a segue, given the amount of education that you have, and even doctors and the medical professional, I hear a lot of female doctors who are older talk about this subject as well. It's just not talked about. It's just not that well known, is it? Not talked about getting there a little bit.

17:23

Speaker 2

But when I did my training, we didn't really talk about the menopause. We certainly didn't talk about the hormonal changes leading up to you finishing your menstrual cycle. I think that's about a week worth of training that doctors get on menopause and perimenopause and the whole of the training. Seven years of training.

17:42

Speaker 3

Yeah.

17:43

Speaker 2

So if you think that the amount of women who are going through these changes, and nobody knows about it. The professionals don't know what to do. So turns out that from the age of about 38, it can be a little bit younger, a little bit older. Your body starts to change because your hormones are fluctuating. So your female hormones, your oestrogen progesterones, are kind of going up and down, and then slowly, they'll tail off, and then you'll finish your period. And when you've had a whole year without a period, you're menopausal. Okay? Now, the process leading up to that is called the perimenopause. And what occurs is remodeling of your body from top toe. And it's not only your physical body. You talk about this, too, Rhonda. It's your mental body, your physical body, your spiritual body, and your emotional body.

18:30

Speaker 2

They are remodeled from top toe, and you can literally feel like you're going crazy, because in a way, you are. You're, like, throwing off past stories, past ways of being. And it became really clear to me that I needed to be the person that helped women through this process. And in doing that, I've realized that the elders I was seeking are the herbs. And it was very clear that herbs are our elders. When we don't have human elders, we can go with the plants. They've been on earth a lot longer than we've got. We've been here.

19:10

Speaker 1

I've got another thing to ask. Somebody said to me the other week when my oestrogen disappeared, everything got harder, and I couldn't manage. And my understanding, which I have since discovered it was incorrect, is that when you're in perimenopause, your oestrogen levels drop. But were you saying something about your oestrogen levels, how estrogen is normally made changes, but then it switches to your adrenal gland, and that's what then produces oestrogen. But if your adrenal gland is already completely overloaded, which that is apparently quite normal now in our society, then it can't produce any, can't do anything like.

19:49

Speaker 2

Blah, blah, you're totally on the money.

19:52

Speaker 1

So I'd like to talk about that a little bit.

19:56

Speaker 2

So what happens? Right, your ovaries make your oestrogen, your progesterone, and your ovaries slowly start to close down. And then there comes a point when they no longer make progesterone and oestrogen. And there are a few different areas in your body that take over. So the key area is the fat that you carry. So you need to be a little plump. We're not talking about really overweight, but you need to carry a little bit of fat, oestrogen, from your fat. But the key organ that takes over is your adrenal glands. So your adrenal glands, they are your stress hormone gland. They're what control your stress response. But if they're too busy dealing with your stress response, they're not multitaskers. They can't do two things at once. Then they can't take over and make your oestrogen.

20:37

Speaker 2

So the gland that makes your oestrogen doesn't make it. So all of your symptoms are way worse than they need to be. So a lot of what I talk about in my education of women is we need to protect the adrenal gland or the whole system, actually, not just your adrenals, your nervous system, and the other parts that control your stress response, because then when you're more often in rest, digest joy state, which is the opposite of fight or flight, then your adrenals can make the oestrogen and a little bit of progesterone so that you don't feel as bad as you might if your adrenal glands aren't producing any of the oestrogen. Thanks. You're welcome.

21:18

Speaker 1

I was like, that's a very hopeful thing. Yeah, because I thought, oh, you just stopped making oestrogen. And then because mom had a really tough time with her perimenopause, and I've always been a little bit scared of it because of that, watching her go through that for that absolute nightmare for like, 1015 years, something like it seems like it went on forever. Anyway, that's an aside, but thank you. I think that's an important thing to know. So managing your stress response, which we could do a whole other podcast on. Love that subject. All right, what do you want everybody to know about their health?

21:52

Speaker 2

We'll talk about the stress response.

21:57

Speaker 1

Right.

21:58

Speaker 2

So what I want people to know about their health. The key thing is that your body is a self healing mechanism, but your body's repair mechanisms cannot work when you're in a stress response. So if you are looking to heal from anything, you need to make sure that you're looking after your stress response and how you do that. Rhonda, you talk about it a lot. I do lower caution work, making sure that your nervous system is safe, making sure that your adrenal glands are producing the rest, digest hormones more than a fight or flight.

22:33

Speaker 1

Okay.

22:34

Speaker 2

Making sure you're looking at your trauma, dealing with that, but also making sure that you play and have joy, like balance, that deep digging. So when I'm in clinic, the most common driver of ill health is that stress response. Without a doubt.

22:48

Speaker 3

Yeah.

22:48

Speaker 1

And sometimes what I love about the way you talk about this is you talk about it from the perspective of it's not emotional stress. It's not like I feel stressed at work, it's not that type of stress. So can you talk about that just a wee bit?

23:00

Speaker 2

Yeah, of course. I will see people come before me in clinic and I'm like, I'm not stressed, I feel fine. But the picture that I'm seeing in front of me is a very stressed picture. The definition of stress is anything that causes a change in your body. And of course, you mentioned emotional stress. My husband's annoying me, my job's rubbish, I'm unfulfilled. That is a type of stress. But we're going to expand it slightly. You've got your physical stress, so you talk about this, Rhonda, you've got how you eat when you eat, you've got dehydration, you've got sleep problems, all the things that you do in your day to day life that might be contributing to your stress response. You've got niggling health concerns, and then you move out a little bit and then you've got your mental stress.

23:43

Speaker 2

Like, what are you thinking about? What sort of ruminating patterns are you going through? Those are all stresses. Because the really interesting thing I think is quite cool is your brain can't differentiate from a real, actual threat or a threat that you just imagine. They mobilize. Your body mobilizes in exactly the same way as if you're actually chased by a tiger or worried that you're going to be chased by a tiger. And so there's that. And then we expand it to the spiritual stress. Do you have a joyful, meaningful, connected life? Do you have good, firm but flexible when necessary boundaries? Are you dealing with those traumas that are driving you into the fight or flight space, which means your body can't self repair? So it's all of those emotional, spiritual, mental and physical stresses.

24:33

Speaker 2

And you don't have to feel stressed to be stressed.

24:38

Speaker 1

I remember just deciding, because with my ADHD, I struggle to remember to do all the things I'm supposed to do every day. It's like, hard. It's like when I add one thing and another thing drops off the back. So I've just kind of get to get used to that. But one thing that I absolutely cannot not do is be hydrated. So for me, I just didn't realize I was chronically hydrated and dehydrated. So when I hydrated myself regularly for a week, my mental health improved, like, 50%. It was crazy. And by the way, I just put this on my stories today, actually. But you know what? I didn't know. So I know we have electrolytes in the house, right? We use good quality electrolytes that do not have any additives or sugars or fake sugars in them. Celtic salt is also good.

25:22

Speaker 1

You can just take a wee nip of that with your water. Right, for your minerals. And I do that. But what you told me yesterday blew my mind. Apparently you also need good fats in order to be hydrated. Now I'm a nut fiend, so I get my right. I'm like, hazelnuts and whatever. Wendy's, like, sharp. We share enough.

25:39

Speaker 3

It's fine.

25:39

Speaker 2

We make me laugh. Just puts my bruise behind your bruise bomb.

25:46

Speaker 1

So, yeah, I've been doing it naturally anyway. But I did not know that you need good fats, which is coconut oil, avocado oil, olive oil, nuts, meat, oily fish. Oily fish.

25:58

Speaker 2

Butter.

25:58

Speaker 1

Butter. And I am a butter fiend as.

26:01

Speaker 2

Well, so that also helps.

26:02

Speaker 3

Yeah.

26:02

Speaker 2

So if you're a person who drinks water, has electrolytes, but maybe you're still constipated or your lips are still dry, maybe you have dry skin, chances are it's because you're not getting enough good fats. Because what the good fats do is they hold the water in the cell, they stop the water from escaping. So they keep the water where it needs to be.

26:19

Speaker 3

Yeah.

26:19

Speaker 1

Because I guess water doesn't penetrate fat at all.

26:23

Speaker 3

Exactly.

26:23

Speaker 1

Unless you put faded liquid in it.

26:25

Speaker 3

Yeah.

26:26

Speaker 2

Or whatever started on emulsifiers.

26:28

Speaker 1

No, let's not do that.

26:31

Speaker 3

Right. Okay.

26:33

Speaker 1

What was my next question going to be? Is there a common misconception that people have about plant spirit medicine?

26:41

Speaker 3

Yes.

26:41

Speaker 2

That is hallucinogenic. Yes.

26:45

Speaker 1

I've come up against that a lot.

26:47

Speaker 2

What I do is working with ayahuasca, aboga, bogey, naboga, whatever the names are. Just cut this bit.

27:00

Speaker 3

Yeah.

27:00

Speaker 2

Wait a minute. We'll just ask that question.

27:07

Speaker 1

Okay. How long is that? Tell me how long we've been recording. That's about 34, 33. 34 minutes.

27:17

Speaker 2

Fucking bogeys driven.

27:18

Speaker 1

I'm like, got some bogeys.

27:21

Speaker 3

Right. Ready?

27:22

Speaker 2

Yeah.

27:23

Speaker 3

Okay.

27:23

Speaker 1

So the next thing I wanted to talk about was what is a common misconception that people have about plant spirit medicine?

27:30

Speaker 2

That's a good question. I think people assume that what I do is I work with hallucinogenic plants, that I work with, the ayahuascas, the otna, and even psilocybin, magic mushrooms. And actually, I don't work with any of those. They have their part to play in this story. But as a practitioner, as a herbal medicine practitioners, I work with plants that are non hallucinogenic, that are very safe, and that are mostly native to the.

27:57

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, great. And why native to the UK? Why do you think that's important?

28:02

Speaker 2

Because it's important to me. Because I think that we are products of our environment. And if we work with the plants that have thrived in the environment that we live in, the benefit I see is so much more because they have thrived in the soils that perhaps are not as high in minerals as they could be, and they are transferring their power in that to us. It's just when they're surviving in an environment that we are trying to survive in, I see that the results are so much more effective.

28:37

Speaker 3

Nice.

28:38

Speaker 1

All right, so what is one piece of advice you'd give to someone who wants to start out as a herbalist?

28:45

Speaker 2

The one piece of advice is to, and it goes back to what we're just talking about, is to get outside and to see what's grown around you. I think that's, number one, is to know your plants before you learn about. Before you take them to pieces and learn about their individual constituents. You want to learn about the whole.

29:05

Speaker 1

Plant, like where it grows, like where.

29:08

Speaker 2

It grows all through the seasons. Is it annual or is it a perennial? Does it come back each year? When is the best time to harvest the roots, like birdock, year one or year two? Because year three, it's too tough. And as a herbalist who did it the other way, I went and did the science first and then connected with the plants. I really found it hindered my practice. If I could have rewritten my journey, I would have started with connecting with the whole plant and then going into the individual parts of it. So going outside and seeing what grows, that's my first great, key step to being a herbalist.

29:45

Speaker 3

Great.

29:45

Speaker 2

Anybody can do that.

29:46

Speaker 1

Yeah.

29:47

Speaker 2

You don't need to pay a fortune at university for a degree. It's useful, definitely. If you want to practice as a herbalist, to treat other people, you're going to take that next step. But if you just want to be a home herbalist, help yourself, help your family, like a kitchen wet. Then you just find out what's growing and find out how to use that. Go on a foraging course.

30:05

Speaker 1

Is there anything that you'd like to say about more dangerous plants? Because I started my foraging journey a couple of years ago and I don't always have time, but I really enjoy it. But there are certain plants that I've learned that are not very safe.

30:22

Speaker 2

Yeah. So that's the whole point about going out and learning what grows around you. So when I say learning about what grows around you, I don't mean going out and picking all the plants. I'm like, go out with a field guide, a really good field guide, which is the book that tells you or book on a foraging course and find out what those plants are, because there are some lookalikes. So the umbilicary family, which is the carrot family, there's some really poisonous members, but there's also some really medicinal members. So you just know that you're not going to pick something if you're not 100% sure. That's golden. Rule number one is you never pick. If you're not sure, you always triple check. So number one, you get a positive identification in a book and then you're going to take it to a professional.

31:13

Speaker 2

There's many community groups now on Facebook, those sorts of things. You get confirmation.

31:18

Speaker 1

I joined one for mushrooms a couple of years ago and that's been really set.

31:22

Speaker 2

But there are certain herbs that are really difficult to miss. Once you get your eye in, you're like, oh, you can spot them for a mile off. And that's exciting. So whilst there are definitely herbs that are to be avoided, there's such went. I'm going to share a story. I went to Rikhilan. It's a local waterfall. It's a beautiful spot. I was sitting there. I was just skimming stones with my boys and I turned around and I was, it's St. John's War. It's St John's War. Nobody cared but me. And I was so excited and I was filled up. I was a bit tired at the start of the day, but after seeing that plant and identifying it in the wild and just saying hi and giving my thanks to it, I felt like my bucket was full again with joy.

32:05

Speaker 2

And it's so rewarding and nourishing. Lovely.

32:08

Speaker 1

Amazing. I do find that as well.

32:10

Speaker 3

Yeah.

32:11

Speaker 1

Because I used to be really into trees.

32:13

Speaker 3

Yeah.

32:14

Speaker 2

We'd be walking and you'd be like, looking up and I'd be looking at.

32:16

Speaker 1

The ground looking down and you were like, I'm so pleased that for once we're both looking in the same direction for a walk, how can the listeners work with you? Now, I know that you guys are in momentum. Membership can find you there easily, but anybody who's maybe not worked with you before or is interested in what you do, well, tell us what you do and then tell us how we can work with you.

32:35

Speaker 3

Yeah.

32:35

Speaker 2

So what I do is I do two things. I educate women primarily on how they can connect with herbs for their own health, how they can connect with plant spirits for healing. And you can find me@wendydoner.com I do six week courses on that. I also do a few one to one consults where we go on a healing journey together. Those are really in depth. They're not honestly for the faint of heart. They're for people who really are ready to dive into their triggers. And that's mental, spiritual, emotional and physical. And then you can find me on Instagram. Wendy.

33:13

Speaker 1

Wendy.

33:16

Speaker 2

And I share all sorts of manner of videos, hair tips, your video.

33:21

Speaker 1

Really good. I need to up my game, actually. I was thinking that I love filming. Yeah. So basically you can connect with Wendy on Instagram and learn loads actually, like real value. So you know my stuff, always really good value. Wendy's the same. So you really can connect with a lot of ideas and learn a lot from our Instagram page. And then wendydoner.com, you can find out more about our one to ones, which are actually quite rare.

33:44

Speaker 2

You don't do very, oh, I'm not taking anybody else on at the moment, but I will be releasing new coaching dates. Okay. Probably in May.

33:51

Speaker 3

In May? Yeah.

33:52

Speaker 1

And then your six week course, you've just started one.

33:54

Speaker 2

Started one on Saturday. And then my next one, I think is in May.

33:57

Speaker 1

Again, I need to look at the date in May. And then do you have like a waitlist for that? Because I know they go pretty quick.

34:02

Speaker 2

I do have a waitlist, but it's not live at the moment. I'm about to put it live. The other way that they can find information is if they join mail and list email list, because they also share information through email.

34:13

Speaker 3

Great.

34:13

Speaker 1

So I'll put that on the show notes so people can find it there and also find your website as well, which is great. So let's do a tough day at work for you and a perfect day.

34:27

Speaker 2

At work for you. So actually today is a tough day. Yeah, I'll just let you know. It's snowing outside and my eldest son broke his leg a while ago and he's still not able to walk on it steadily, which means that whenever it snows, we can't get out of the house. So he is having a home day. And so that makes it really tricky for me. I'm very methodic in how I set my day out. Like autistic. I am autistic. You're right, Rhonda. I have to chunk my time up and when I have to pivot really quickly, I can find that difficult. So today is a tricky day, although we've made it work.

35:01

Speaker 3

Yeah.

35:01

Speaker 2

It's been managed to film this. And an ideal day would be sunny outside, out first thing in the morning, giving my offerings of some tea or coffee, a cacao, foraging for some herbs, drying some herbs, coming back, making some videos, having my. I call them date boats. They're dates. Almond butter and chocolate with a buttery coffee. I like butter with coffee, not milk. Maybe having a laugh with you and listen to some music while I'm writing and reading and finish it off probably with a skate and. Or a bath. That's my ideal day. Great. Very nice. Which actually happens more often than.

35:39

Speaker 1

I mean, I was going to say.

35:40

Speaker 2

That, well, the blinds closed, but it's grey outside. All right.

35:47

Speaker 1

Would you mind, Wendy, sharing a plant ritual for our listeners? Like something that you can share fairly quickly and easily, but something that people can do at home to connect with plants.

35:59

Speaker 2

Absolutely. So probably the best thing would be what we call a sensory tea ceremony. Eronda, you said you might share the PDF on how to do that.

36:08

Speaker 3

Yeah.

36:08

Speaker 1

Have you got one?

36:09

Speaker 2

I do.

36:10

Speaker 3

Right.

36:10

Speaker 1

So I'll also put that in the show notes then as well.

36:12

Speaker 2

So basically what a sensory tea ceremony is using all your body senses to connect into the medicines of those herbs. And what I mean by that is each herb like you has its own physical medicine, mental medicine, spiritual medicine and emotional medicine. And when you do your sensory tea ceremony, you can really feel the depth of that medicine. So you start off, you get one herb, make sure it's safe for you first before you do it. Make a cup of tea. And as you're making the tea, you're mindful, you're connecting with the plant, you're giving your thanks for its bounty, calling in your guides, setting the intention that you are going to connect with this herb, then you're going to just sit.

36:54

Speaker 2

Once you've got your tea, you're going to sit, you're going to look at it, really spend time seeing the colors dance on the surface, what color is it, what shapes and what patterns are you starting to see? And your body will start to soften, and you're just paying attention for any shifts inside. And even as you're smelling and looking at it, you might find tension melting. You might find yourself spontaneously smiling, depending on what herb you're working with. And then you take the herb, you drink it really slowly, and with each sip, with your eyes closed, you're just feeling it travel through your body. Where is it going? So, for instance, when you work with, say, elder, it increases your circulation. So you might find your fingers start to tangle. You might feel yourself start to get a bit warmer.

37:38

Speaker 2

Your toes might tangle, and then you might get memories or emotions or feelings. And we're paying attention to all of that. And that's the herb telling us what it does. Because herbs don't speak traditionally in this spoken word.

37:55

Speaker 1

Lovely Floyd agrees to the mic's picking up.

37:58

Speaker 3

Yeah.

37:59

Speaker 2

So this tea ceremony is a way of directly communicating with plants in the language that they speak, which is somatic, feelings based language. And then you can do that a few times over a course of a few days and write down your findings. You might find yourself, like, spontaneously coughing. And usually that's because the herb helps to increase mucus secretion. You might find your, like, I was working with chamomile and my eyes started to run. It's because it's a hay fever remedy. You might find yourself, oh, desperate for a pee. It's because it helps to flush urine out of your body. So these are all messages from the plant about what it does for us. And that's the thing about shamanic herbalism and shamanism in general. It's finding out for yourself what medicine the plant has for you.

38:45

Speaker 1

Amen.

38:46

Speaker 3

Amen.

38:46

Speaker 2

Direct revelation.

38:47

Speaker 1

Revelation. Find your own way. Find your own path. Do what's right for you. All right, thank you. Been such a lovely chat, actually. But if you had one message for our listeners today to wrap up, what would your message be?

39:00

Speaker 2

I knew you were going to ask me this. All right, I think I say this a lot, that herbs help us to remember who we are, what our soul essence is, and what we came here to do, whether it's small things or whether it's big things, helps take away the noise and take away the layers and take away the trauma so we can see what's underneath. They're not a magical bullet, they're not a magical cure, but they really help us to see things more clearly.

39:34

Speaker 1

Thanks, Wendy.

39:35

Speaker 2

And they're my best friends. Apart from you, I was going to say. Yeah, here, my non human best.

39:40

Speaker 1

Okay, that's fine. Non human. We can go with that. Okay, so finally, you'll get wendydooner.com if you want to go and check out what she does, and you'll also find her on Instagram. Now, if you enjoy this podcast, please do subscribe. It is so helpful to me for you to do that. And also, if you feel so inclined, you can also leave a review as well. Not everywhere, I think Apple. You can do reviews and Spotify. You can do the subscription thing, but it really is actually super helpful. It's like a really lovely reciprocity. It's the only thing I really ask for. But it's just little things like that help me get my message out and help me to reach as many.

40:23

Speaker 2

People as possible so you can help spread the word.

40:25

Speaker 1

So go and hit the subscribe button. All right. Thank you so much, Wendy, for coming.

41:02

Speaker 1

So until next time, may the wisdom of the ancients guide you. The warmth of your heart comfort you, and the sacred cauldrons within you find harmony and balance.