00:00

Speaker 1

Hi, everyone. Welcome to this week's episode so Shaman Talk. My name is Rhonda and I'm your host and I am delighted to welcome Maria. Now, Maria is not only a really great friend of mine, they are also a faculty member at the center for Shamanism and they bring an absolutely wonderful mix of astrology and shamanism. Maria has over 20 years experience, for a start, but they're also deeply passionate about supporting you to build a relationship with the skies via a shamanic connection so that you can experience the benefits of a more autonomous and expansive relationship with astrology. The best thing I think that Maria brings to our membership and to the conversation around astrology is the way that they make the topic digestible and accessible, which, if you know me at all, that is absolutely essential in any teacher.

00:56

Speaker 1

Maria shapes astrology to bring meaningful and useful. Meaningful and useful way for you to actually apply it in your daily life. I can't wait to have this conversation. It makes me feel really excited to talk about it. So, Maria, welcome and thank you very much for coming.

01:13

Speaker 2

Oh, thank you for having me.

01:15

Speaker 1

No problem. I think I always like to start by asking people a bit about how they ended up where they are. Shamanic astrology for living. How did you end up here? Oh, this is a fun one to.

01:26

Speaker 2

Think on because I accurately remember the moment that I fell in love with astrology. I got pocket money. I used to go to the little weekly market in the next time to us, and it was burning a wool in my pocket, like I wanted to spend this money. So I got a bootleg cassette album and I thought, I'm not going home with change. And this astrology book just caught my eye. Now, I was 13 and I don't know what it was about it, but I just thought, I need that. So also went home. And then only one side of the cassette worked, as was predictable and pretty disappointing. So I thought, okay, let's dive into this book. And I don't know why.

02:10

Speaker 2

I can guess why, but it just captivated me and it had all this language in it that I thought, oh, this is what I've been looking for, mostly because at that time I always knew a star sign, as most people do. So mine was Aquarius and I was quite taken by sometimes looking at a weekly horoscope or something like that. But delving into this book, it went into more depth and I thought, oh, I really resonate with all the kind of quirks and the qualities and everything it says. It just made sense to me and it hit me deeply and looking back, I was exploring my sun sign, and your sun is all about your core and your identity and your ego, your personality, things that you start really thinking about at that age. So this was the best discovery to me.

03:10

Speaker 2

I thought it was absolutely amazing. And I think at the time, what I had in life was a lot of narrative as to what I should be, and it felt really restricting and just so far away from what I felt inside. So astrology for me just became this huge compass that I would always drift back to. I held on to everything I learned about Aquarius and thought that'll always lead me back when I get lost. And it really has. So in terms of shamanism, that was a wee bit harder to pinpoint. And when I heard your podcast around shamanic suppression and travail to deaths, I thought, oh, wow, that really struck a chord because I can look back as well and see how I had a very close relationship with guides, but no language around that.

04:04

Speaker 2

I couldn't tell you who they were, but I knew there was something there. And when I looked to all the adults in my life, I realized I was starting to build up the connection of spirituality that was meant for me. But all I could see was just really restrictive religious chat. I found religion wonderful, but at that time, the personalities that were in my life, it was just very, this is what you do, this is how you should be. And then the other flip side was adults who were going to psychics or readers, and that never floated my boat either. I was like, this doesn't make sense. I had this big connection with astrology and these guides, and I just had no clue what the language or the context was around it.

05:00

Speaker 2

So I kind of lost my way, maybe going into my later teens, and I just had no way of really, it's almost like I shut it down. There was quite a few experiences in life that just really made me close down to it all. And then it wasn't until I had my kids in my mid 30s that I thought, oh, I can see how impractical that shutdown was because, I mean, I had these incredible little human beings and I'm a guide for them. That's how I seen it. I'm going to be their guide. And that didn't mean just meeting their basic needs. I really wanted to be very emotionally available and give them much more like an expansiveness, and I didn't have that. I looked at my own self and I thought, this is devastating, I'm smiling.

05:53

Speaker 2

But at the time I was so crushing because I thought I'm pretending at life. Every part of what I do is like performing, role playing, numbing out. I was really confronted by my past because that was absolutely running the present. And I thought, oh no, I know what I need to do. I have no way. How do I fix that disjoint. And I'd done what I think a lot of people do. I thought, right, well, what's out there? I'll go to meditation. And very quickly I realized that although that gave me moments of presence, it wasn't enough. It was like sticking plasters and all these big gushing arteries around. I was like, this is a love thing. And I really quickly started naturally connecting with my guides again. And I started realizing, oh, this feels shamanic. I don't have enough knowledge about that.

06:49

Speaker 2

I looked at my astrology again and I thought, I've drifted so far away from who I know myself to be. And it was quite terrifying because there was not a singular area of my life that did not need to be taken apart. Abefable for kids. And I know you're supposed to do it for yourself, but that was a huge motivation factor for me because I was like, I cannot provide them what I know I need to if I don't do that for myself. So I found a set of for shamanism because I was conscious that I wanted to not be tokenistic with my approaches or anything. It always felt deeper.

07:30

Speaker 2

And I just loved the way that the center for shamanism communicated shamanism and provided almost like the nuts and bolts and the missing parts to help me through this very catapismic period of time where I was like, okay, let's tackle it then. Let's leave no store unturned, but let's do it all. So in doing that, I just remember that finally establishing this wonderful connection with astrology again, shamanism and the way that you teach it just felt like that stealing. When I've got that little book at the market, I was like, oh, this is nice. This is just like coming home, actually. So from that point, I've used it very much for myself and then started to naturally gravitate and help other people who are interested in astrology find what I found. And I've just had some incredible things happen from that point.

08:32

Speaker 1

Brilliant, amazing. I love hearing the often painful, but usually transformative experiences of the people that we talk to. It's really lovely. I'm quite interested in the way that we talk. Right? We're friends, so we talk sometimes. And I know that you talk a lot about academic astrology versus culture of astrology and how there's not much in between. So it's that dense crazy. The thing took me off actually in the beginning was like the mass and the angles and all that stuff and then they're like oh. So for me, I'm an Aries and so that makes me x, y and z, not really much depth to it. So I'm wondering how you talk about that. Where do you find yourself landing in between those two points?

09:28

Speaker 2

I'm never one to say this isn't how you should do something. I only say how I've found it. And I love a bit of knowledge, I really do. But I also need it to mean something in my actual life. So in astrology I do find a spectrum and people can either go visit over here where it's just academia and it's conjuncts and Kazimis and a lot of terminology and graphs and lines and I know this much about my own astrology, but struggle to make it actually do something others over here and it's quite caricatured for want of a better word. And that leaves people, it's Billy Keith at McDonald's. Like it's satisfying. I love finding out what bath bomb I represent as an Aquarius. Know that's a great little moment for me, but what am I going to do with that?

10:27

Speaker 2

Where does that go? So it just leaves you a bit empty. And the way I've always found it, shamanism is the key for me because I would say shamanism for me is I'm not a huge journeyer. I love shamanism for the very real in the day experiences that I have. And I find that with astrology as well. So I love bringing people into this middle bit that I exist in where astrology can be very fun and joyful, you can learn around it, but it's a connection that you actually already have is inherent to you. You are absolutely. I love astrology because it belongs to everybody and you have your own personal connection and it's trying to reestablish that because it gets a little bit lost and amongst Steve's quite intense places.

11:21

Speaker 1

That's really interesting. So how would you then do that? I'm really interested to put some meat on the bones of this. So could you walk us through maybe an example of evolved sensation or when you're combining your shamanic practices with your astrological insights, can you give us some examples of what you're talking about? I can't ask this question very well because I know very little about astrology. But do you know what I'm saying?

11:48

Speaker 2

I suppose for me, I work seasonally. I love my birth chart and I love different aspects of it and it gives me a lot of information. But actually I'm a very different person to who I was when I was born. For me, my birth chart is a movable thing. It shifts and it changes with me. So every time I look at it, I find something new from it. And how I work in the day to day or the month to month is very seasonally with astrology. So I love understanding what the sky is abundant and energy wise on a monthly basis.

12:23

Speaker 2

And I'll look at it at the start as a shamanic astrologer, I really try to, if I'm communicating it with people, I don't go, well, these are the certain dates where Venus moves into this, and then that's going to oppose that and square beware. That's a lot. What I'll do is I'll look at it all and the way my brain works, I see these patterns and I use a lot of intuition with it as well. And I think, what are themes that come up? And I always tie it into the sign that we're working under because I think for me, shamanism brings me a lot back to my poor. It's my compass for knowing who I am, being okay with that, being challenged, allowing lessons and growth to happen, but always still coming back to that basis at the middle.

13:10

Speaker 2

And that's the sun sign. So I love when the sun, each month shifts into a different sign. I see it as this really wonderful opportunity to see what that does for me in my life. So, for example, we're going into Aries season, so I'll have a look what Aries solar return for you. Yeah, I'll have a look at what Aries is as a sign and go a bit beyond the caricatures because I do a magazine, actually, and I'll sometimes say in modern meme culture, this is what Aries is kind of labeled as about, of the I want it my way toddler. I was like, diminishes. We're talking about the star constellation. So I'm like, well, for me, Aries is wonderful. It's the start of the astrological new year. It signifies this brilliant, fresh, sparky energy.

14:08

Speaker 2

Aries to me is like a trailblazer that goes places that other people might not have went. It encourages that in you. It says, what path have you not explored? What have you not done yet? What are you sitting on? You might not know what the outcome of that is. But have the courage. Have the courage to push yourself at the comfort zone. Do a scary thing. Yeah, stretch yourself a little bit. To me, that's what Aries season is. And I'll have a look at what else is going on planetary wise, and I'll just wink that into the season and I'll always bring it back to the season because I believe that if you're doing that work on you, that's what you're doing. You're working with your core. Does that make sense?

14:52

Speaker 1

Yeah, definitely. Let me ask you another question then. I do know that I am an Aries because everybody knows what. Also, I think if my memory serves me, you probably remember better than me. I'm also a Virgo moon and a Virgo rising, right? I think my memory serves me. So when I'm in Aries and I'm coming into Aries season, and I also have those two other influences which I'm not even sure where those land that would be different than if we're coming into Aries season as a. What did you say you are?

15:31

Speaker 2

Well, I'm aquarian at four.

15:32

Speaker 1

You're aquarian, right. So you're aquarian and you're coming in ad season. So those two things already seem quite different. So what you're saying, I think, is an intuitive level where you're bringing in that shamanic searship element like ding, ding, cc these things, and then it's kind of mapped out. So where I would use story and symbolism, you use astrology to map out how someone can then turn that into something useful for their day to day life.

16:06

Speaker 2

Yes. Sometimes what I see is this month ahead for you, Aries, this month ahead for you, Taurus. And whilst I have no issue with that, I do think that leaves people a little bit stuck sometimes, because what I like to do is focus on themes. So I'll say we're going into Aries season. I'm in the middle of doing the magazine, actually. So I'm thinking. I'm thinking about like, what's your relationship with comfort? What's your relationship like with fear? Have a think about where you currently are and what you want to pour your energy into. I've bring in a lot of those elements because those are things that people can relate to regardless of what their astrological max is.

16:56

Speaker 1

Well, I'm already, like working with that.

17:01

Speaker 2

Sometimes people will have this incredible knowledge of their astrology. I find two different kinds of people. Someone will say to me, I don't know anything about my astrology. And somewhere like that, I can tell you with the degrees of separation, every aspect of my chart, they're both the same to me, actually. It doesn't make a difference in terms of how you drive this season. It really doesn't. I use this analogy. I think of myself as a driving instructor, right. And astrology is the car. And what I'm trying to do for someone is get them to be a really confident driver. Does that mean that they need to understand how a car is built? The incredible minute detail of the engineering that has went into that car, that's like your bus track. No, they don't.

17:45

Speaker 2

They might need to know some pointers, but they just need to know who they are just now. Feel confidence in their own ability. And that's my job. Sometimes I'll give a little bit of. If someone does want to learn a little bit about astrology and build up the knowledge, I'm quite happy to hone in on maybe one planet per month so that people can cumulatively and in a very digestible way. So I go, okay, I'm building up my own relationship with what this sign energy is. So that then say you do go and explore your astrology. You're like, oh, well, I know how I operate during Aries season. I'm familiar with that energy now. I know what strengths it feels at me. I know how confronting it can be. I know how easeful and supportive I felt with that area.

18:36

Speaker 2

Oh, that makes such sense that I work with Aries energy. And my Venus sign, for example, it just allows that kind of click to happen for people.

18:46

Speaker 1

Yeah. Okay, so that sounds really like the way I would teach moon cycles. So we did a project in the membership around how to map moon cycles for yourself, essentially. So you're not like, just following the rope like this is this Wayne and moon's this, Wax and Gavas is this? And it's not.

19:07

Speaker 2

How can it be true for 8.

19:08

Speaker 1

Billion people on the planet? That's not really how that works. So, yeah, that sounds really similar to that, which is really cool. And I'm actually interested just to take it back to some of your more personal experiences or your memorable experiences. But have you got any moments you can share or insights you can share that you've gained through your shamanic astrology work, if you're interested in that, how.

19:34

Speaker 2

To think like one that doesn't say cat, because I went through a big change. I linked up with my lunar nodes at 35. So that's a big thing that can happen for you. And that was ended up coming out quite publicly and stuff. So that bring the vibe of the pod down. So I'm going to go for something really fun. I had a really joyful experience with astrology last year, and it was an Aries season. I decided, right, that's it. Seasonally, this year, this is going to be it. I'm going to do an action because a lot of my astrology is very air based and water based. So I'm doing a lot of thinking and processing, and I'm doing a lot of emotional work.

20:20

Speaker 2

And I thought, I've got not a lot of earth energy and fire energy in me, and you need those to really get things going. Saffa right. Let's just every single month do a scary thing. Let's link in and do an actual action, do a thing. So in Aries season, I was like, what would scare me the absolute most? And that was like, I'll sell my artwork because I'd been painting. Astrology terrified me, absolutely terrified me. And I signed up just randomly and on a whim to go and showcase it at this stall that was having like a holistic fair. And I could not have been more misplaced and more niche for this fair. This was not the vibe. We're talking, like, handcrafted soap with mugworth. And I'm like that, hey, here's my art.

21:11

Speaker 2

In fact, I didn't care because I was like, you're doing this for you. It's okay, you don't have to sell anything. And I stood there at this freezing cold stall, and James tried to g me up and stuff. Jane's my partner. And I was like, I just did it for me. I just did it for me. And this woman appears near the end of the day, out the blue, and she was so lovely, I'll never forget her. And she just started talking to me about Mar and she went, I'm very drawn to this one. And it was my Aries painting. And I thought, oh, wow. And she said, I'm going to take it. And just as I'm about to say, are you sure? Because I'm working through a thing, James whoops her. This is like, just package it up for. Just do it.

21:53

Speaker 2

And the room was just so lovely. And she turned around to me and do you know when you have moments where you're like, was this plant or something? Because she'd done this. Riley, little smile to me and said, this is going all the way back to Arizona, by the way. I'm away back to America tomorrow, so your painting will be hanging in. I honestly, it was probably one of the best things that's ever happened to me. And it was my Aries painting and Aries season, my big scary Aries thing. And I don't know, it done something for me. And then back a few single months after just brilliant things were happening, I just decided to put myself out there a wee bit more and what I could do and it just stingrayed. So, yeah, that's a fun one.

22:39

Speaker 1

That's lovely. That's so nice. I wonder if I'll meet the person when I'm in Arizona and me, maybe I'll be able to hit them up and go and say hi. Painting.

22:48

Speaker 2

She knows they asked for a business card because this had been such a wham. I didn't have one. I don't think she knows my name.

22:55

Speaker 1

Well, maybe I'll come back around sometime. That would be pretty cool. That is really nice. So one thing I am interested in. So you were seeing earlier about intuition, and then you're talking about techniques and angles and all these different things. So I'm wondering how you balance that. Actually, you balance the intuitive sign with the more traditional techniques that you use in an astrological reading. How do you balance that?

23:23

Speaker 2

It's very hard to explain. My mind map. I work with, Mercury is your planet, by the way, that you connect with for your comprehension, your cognitive abilities, how you take an information, process it, and then put it out there into the world, how you communicate with others and share information. And I work with Aquarius in that, in retrograde. So it's quite a strange and tricky energy. But for some reason it really helps me the patterns and put things together in this very strange way. And I always trust my guides as well. I always get, like a little bit of a lean in to what the season can feel like.

24:14

Speaker 2

So I'm using a lot of my information about what I know about sign energies, what I know about the planets are what I know can cause challenges and assess really big support, actually, as well. It's not just all like turmoil and serious stuff. It can be really wonderful. And then I'm putting all of that together and it's one of the trickiest things is to try and make something that's really complex and big sound digestible for a wider variety of people. I don't know if you find that.

24:46

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's challenging, then the way I do it is I just teach how I want it to be taught.

24:53

Speaker 2

Yeah. I thought to myself, I'm like, how would this have made sense to me? Because whenever I tried to pursue anybody to learn astrology with. It was either very dense and heavy and it was almost like I was having to be like, oh, this person knows so much. You know so much, but it's not meaning anything to me. And I found that a lot with moon stuff. I mean, I searched for ages, try to establish this connection with the moon and the books I had and the things I did. And I was just saying it was really just, it was a shamanic connection that was needed and do you mean.

25:28

Speaker 1

Because it's got that direct revelation so it's like direct to spirit almost. It's almost like you're saying that you're working with the spirit of the astrology yourself and gigal, it's like you're bringing that kind of know that divine knowledge of the gods and you're kind of bringing it down into something that's quite academic. And it feels to me like when I think about it and I read your work feels like a light switch. It feels like you draw down this divine connective light that just lights it up. It's just easy to see. You can just read it and you're like, oh, great, okay, this actually makes sense. That's why I love your magazine so much, because you're just like, oh, okay, this makes sense. I can work with this and I can put something into practice in my day to day life.

26:18

Speaker 1

I'm not interested in esoteric from my daily life academic stuff. Some people love that and I'm all there for that. For them.

26:31

Speaker 2

Absolutely.

26:32

Speaker 1

But it doesn't help me and it doesn't help the people in our membership and it doesn't help people to really connect with what they need to connect with on a day to day basis, which is why I really love the work that you do because it really does do that. It's quite magical.

26:49

Speaker 2

I found Mackie via yours because that's what it made sense to me because I was like, I was going to meditation when I was first starting to try and attack the spiritual thing and I was journeying and no one could really tell me because they were like, no, you must just clear the mind. And I was like, I can't help what's happening to me. I am going on journeys. And then it was just really wonderful to come across how you teach because I was like, and then especially with the cauldrons, I was like, oh, ping ping ping. It's all going on here. This is what it means because I can never understand when I was connecting with things like meditation.

27:28

Speaker 2

It would bring up a huge amount of healing for me, and I would bring up something that I had to take an action on. And I was like, okay, well, where to go now? Do I just do another retreat? Get another crystal.

27:44

Speaker 1

Story that you tell when you're like, I used to put crystals in my bra.

27:52

Speaker 2

Oh, my goodness. I went on a crystal journey. I really did.

27:55

Speaker 1

I love stones and crystals. But there's definitely. How would I put this politely? There's definitely a beautifully comedic bypassing that happens in some areas of the crystal community the same as anywhere else, honestly.

28:14

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean, honestly, the unbound, the sheer amount that I had down there, I would take my brow off and they would just be like, everywhere. Wake up the kids. So it's like, no, this can't go on. Makes no sense.

28:27

Speaker 1

And what's interesting there is just to jump back to something you said a second ago. You're in meditation class or groups, and they're like, oh, clear your mind. But that's not what meditation is. Meditation is observing your thoughts. Those are two very different things. But that's another thing I'll bug bear in mind when it comes to meditation classes, which I'll do and then very commas in case anybody's listening and not watching. So. Yeah, right. It's a great tangent there. That was really funny. What I am interested in is what do you see people struggling with the most with astrology? And how can you connect that? So I want to talk about how you see tribe astrology evolving, because I'm all about evolving spirituality. I talk a lot about celtic shamanism. I'm not about trying to recreate a celtic past because we can't do that.

29:19

Speaker 1

But I am interested in what I can learn from what's already here. How I can connect with Mondays and spirits, and then how I can evolve with, involve, evolve with what I'm learning from the spirits, evolve into taking traditional and ancient techniques and making them relevant for today. And I guess that's one of the things that you do as well. So there's two questions there, I guess. What do people struggle with? And then how do you see the somatic astrology evolving?

29:48

Speaker 2

Okay, let me have a think. That's quite big. So one of the biggest things, I think that causes a struggle is western astrology very much leans on a predictive. It loves a predictive amount of astrology.

30:03

Speaker 1

Does that mean like, oh, you're going to marry at this point and have so many babies and all that stuff.

30:09

Speaker 2

So it's like that reaping massage. What do they mean it can become very fortune telling and then reads it with the fortune. And one of the things that they always comes to my mind about this, and I don't know if you've seen the film, but I remember going to see the Matrix, right? And it was like, it was quite a busy film from what I remember. And other than having a really great soundtrack, there was this scene and it sticks with me. And it's where this chap, the main guy, he's been told, you are this. You are the one, you have this mission, you are going to do these things. And then they swipe him off to go see the oracle, who's this very cool person in our kitchen. And she's facing away from him and she said, don't worry about the vase.

30:56

Speaker 2

And of course, he starts looking around, smacks his vase down onto the ground, very apologetic, sorry. And she turns round and she's just like, I told you not to worry about it. But here's what will flip your needle. Would you have knocked down that vase if I hadn't said that, for me, was just like. Because I was really into astrology and tarot, and I was like, that's how I feel about that. There has to be a level of self determination and autonomy within a connection for me. I'm not in there to make something that is going to shape or cloud what I'm actually supposed to do. So I want to go in a month and be able to really be in it, have lovely experiences with my kids, be very present. I'm thinking about someone Jane says to me.

31:51

Speaker 2

Jane's always, like, saying this thing like that, this won't last forever. And she's saying it to me when I was having a bad time. But it's come to mean something different for me now. So if I'm having a great time with the kids, my guides will say, this won't last forever. And it's me trying to take upshots and really be in life and really love it. I'm down for living. I want all of it. I want to be happy, sad, brief. I want a human experience. I think when we lean into this kind of predictive and foreboding nature of how I see some of astrology, it goes somewhere else for me. And I hear from other people that it does the same for them. You hear things like that, oh, it's mercury retrograde. And I'm like, I never see it as that.

32:39

Speaker 2

There's got to be this removal of it just being this esoteric. Someone's going to tell you how it should go and more into like a collaborative thing that you engage with. Does that make sense?

32:55

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's really interesting. And I think that it's just exactly the same as the way that I teach shamanism, really. There's a lot of method based practices. And this is the way. And you're right, and I'm right. Sorry. And you're wrong, and you shouldn't do it this way. And you can't use this label, and you can't make these choices. And it's very restrictive, very controlling. And to me it's actually a hangover from our christian days where everything was controlled. And there were a few people that had the right to tell everybody else how to be spiritual and the way that they should live. And I think it's just a collective shadow, really, of those days. But what I'm starting to see a lot now is people breaking out of that. But they're breaking out of it.

33:46

Speaker 1

It's funny because there's a branzal instruct, I think. So people go out of that control, and now they've swung way the other way. And now. Yeah, right. So you've got these two groups. Now you've got the group who's like, you can't do this. You shouldn't do it this way. This is the only way. And then you've got the group who are like, I'm astrally traveling and I'm seeing the people. I'm in different dimensions, completely ungrounded and untethered and away in the stars. Whereas when you have a regulated, grounded, everyday, animistic connection with nature, with your spirit guides and with the life that you lead every day, neither of those kind of extremes will pull you off center kind of thing sounds like a very similar description. It's the kind of cauldron's way, isn't it?

34:36

Speaker 1

It's the feet and soil, heart and the earth and the sky is there, but it's there as like a supportive mystery ost as opposed to something you should try and be in all the time.

34:52

Speaker 2

I know, and a lot of the astrology, the way I work with it's cauldron work for me. I've always been very connected to a bigger thing. But that can go very wrong for me, actually, in previous years. Because what it led to was actually more disconnection.

35:14

Speaker 1

Do you feel like me? Do you feel like it was so bad, like, to get out of yourself and away?

35:22

Speaker 2

That's why I think understanding astrology in a way that isn't this, like, crazy esoteric, tradition based foreboding, sometimes an exquisite thing. It makes you passive. It makes you just be very passive in it. And I can remember very quickly being like, that's not what I want. That's not helpful for me. I love being anchored. I love being connected. That's very important for me as a human. That's how I established that big thing that drove me in the first place to being the kind of parent I wanted to for my kids. I wasn't living life. I was away somewhere else. It's just the hearing body. It can go different ways. And then I sometimes see some of the things that are in astrology described. Try to think of something that really links under the cauldrons to try and knit us together.

36:23

Speaker 2

So you'll hear people talk about Saturn Raton. They have their Saturn Raton, which is a big catman in astrology. And it's when you're born, you have your natal chart, and your planets are all in a certain position. Saturn is one of these planets that takes a very long time to move around and return to the same position that it was in. So what's known as your Saturn return happens when you're about 27 to 30, and it can also then happen again when you reach 50. The Saturn and astrology is like, it's quite a tricky one because it's very borative and it deals in accountability, responsibility, framework, rules, how you structure, how you deal with structure.

37:07

Speaker 2

So when you get to like 20, 70, 30, you start questioning that generally, and you have a think of, oh, wait, I'm having to look at my life and what do I believe? What does these things? How has it impacted me? Well, some people do. And then you look at things like your education, your connection previously to what you've called spirituality, your role models, like how you've learned all these things. And the real key with some people will talk about their Saturn return. A lot of famous people talk about it, actually. I mean, I'm a queer astrologer and I squealed because Ariana Grande dropped an album and she's got a song in it about her Saturn return. So I was, this is wonderful, but it's often spoken about as like a hindsight thing. That's a terrible time.

37:57

Speaker 2

And we're moving forward into adulthood having learned lessons. But real wisdom comes from integration, in my opinion. So a lot of how you speak about the cauldron system and shamanism, your Saturn returns about looking at your lower cauldrons, and that's what I'd done without knowing it, I was like, these are spewing out everything that I have learned or has kept me constricted, or I've become so lost and amongst everybody else's rhetoric that I have no way I'm either going to super rebel or I'm going to restructure all of that. And it took such work just looking at my cauldrons in the lower and the middle. And although it did have a connection to my upper one, it just was a bit just into. Right. It wasn't serving its purpose. So I don't know if that helps.

38:51

Speaker 1

No, it's really interesting for anybody who you're saying, if anybody's kind of find the podcast through looking for shamanism and astrology and has no idea what the three cauldrons are, maybe I should just say so. The three cauldrons are the Celtics in our power center. So you have your lower cauldron, Corey Goria, your middle cauldron, Corie Irma, and your upper cauldron, Corey Soish. And each of these cauldrons holds certain facets of your soul, your life force, your energy, what you bring to earth. And to walk a cauldron's path is essentially to walk a dotted spiritual life, more or less. That's one of the things that I teach. So that's actually what our membership is all based around. And when the new one, it launches in May, it will be even more around that, and it will literally be called the cauldron's way.

39:46

Speaker 1

And it's really cool because what Bria and Jane do as faculty in the cauldron's way is you guys create this monthly majesty for us, right? That talks about the season like you've said, and it's brilliant. Everything I love about education is like, short, snappy, and yet there are detailed sections. Visually, it's great, and it always ties back to the three cauldrons. And so at the end, the devotees got the page of how it relates to the three cauldrons, and it's magical. I love it. It's great. So good. So I'm wondering if there are any resources or practices for our listeners who maybe want to deepen their understanding of what you've talked about today of shamanic astrology.

40:42

Speaker 2

I mean, for me, shamanic astrology is you can go anywhere and find out tons and tons of stuff about astrology.

40:50

Speaker 1

Okay?

40:50

Speaker 2

It's very abundant, let's be honest. You can go on and generate your birth chart. You could sign up to an app that will tell you every single day what to look for what's going to be pinging your way astrologically. And I hear from a lot of people who are like, I'm getting lost. Can I ask you a question? I'm like, absolutely. And then what I'll say to them is, switch up what you're saying and watch what happens. So I used to be very prone to saying, I'm aquarian. And I would wear it like this badge of honor. And it just kept me stuck in this place of almost non movement. I wouldn't challenge it. If you know anything about aquarian energy, it does not take critique well, and it knows a lot, so don't be telling it anything.

41:43

Speaker 2

So I need to be aware of that. I like hearing that. So I know in myself that actually I work with that energy. That's how I talk about it now. I say I work with that energy. I know that these are the challenging things that can present from an aquarian connection, and these are the brilliant strengths that can happen. So for me, sometimes I'll look at myself and I'll be like, that you are just rebel without a cause here. Why is you fighting all these fight? Why is everything bothering you? Why can you only see how things don't work and not like how they do? You're wired for that. And I know that something's going on with that energy connection. So sometimes what I'll say to people is, if you're trying to build a connection, look at the cauldroncy.

42:37

Speaker 2

Look at understanding a little bit more about what it is to have a very anchored, animistic, connected, actually doing it approach to something and see how it changes. Watch how you just flourish. Because when you start doing that, what I watch happen in people is they go, oh, I am really connected to astrology. And I'm like, of course you are. Of course you are. No one's going to give you permission or say right now, you have achieved enough knowledge. You are astrologically connected. No one does that. So I would love people to feel encouraged that way. I am starting a mailer, so if you wanted to sign up for that, you are absolutely welcome.

43:25

Speaker 1

Everybody.

43:25

Speaker 2

Yeah, and I'm always quite active on my social media, like going to my stories every season, and you get a chance to put in your astro mix or ask questions. And I'm really interactive in there. I love connecting with people and just helping them see how they are actually already connected to something as opposed to being like, yeah, you do it this way.

43:50

Speaker 1

Yeah, no, it sounds like what you're saying is you're not like, oh, I'm the astrology guru. You're rather. You're like, here is how you are your own.

44:01

Speaker 2

Here'S how you find your own connection with shamanic astrology and amongst a hugely intense, esoteric, lots of people, lots of things to say area.

44:14

Speaker 1

Right. So it's like quite a grounding practice. It sounds like quite a grounding thing, too. That's really lovely. Well, before I start pointing people to where they can actually find you, do you think you can wrap up by sharing any insights or messages that the cosmos might have for people right now for our listeners?

44:34

Speaker 2

Well, as we record this, we're in the sort of last bit of Pisces season, and it's a lovely sign, that one. It's very connected to your imagination, your intuition, your dreamer self. And we're going into Aries season, so we're at this sort of very intense but wonderfully potent threshold where we go from that kind of sign into this really fiery, enthusiastic, let's try new things sign. So how do you bridge that divide? How do you move from one astrological year into the next? And I think one of the best things to do is if you love astrology or if you get this little inkling of I really am interested, just go with the enthusiasm of it.

45:29

Speaker 2

If there's something else going on in your life that you've been putting off, you've been in a little bit of a stalling mode, you're ruminating on it a lot, you're twiddling your fingers and think, we should or not. This next season that we're going into is the one. This is the one to do the scary thing, to stretch yourself, to push yourself a little bit and, yeah, get out of that comfort zone and then watch what happens as you go season by season. What comes from that? You might have some clues from this month about where to focus. So, yeah, go and have a nice, fresh, tubulent energy and go for that reason.

46:10

Speaker 1

Well, I need to have a think about. Think about that. When does the season start? What is the day of Aries season?

46:18

Speaker 2

So Aries season? Some people say 18th, some people say 19th. I tend to worry the 19th and the 20th. I find that feels very much like Aries season to me.

46:30

Speaker 1

This goes out in a couple of weeks. We'll be into Aries season. Great. Well, thank you, Maria. It's been so lovely. So if you are interested in finding out more and speaking to Maria, you can find them on at auto. No, I'm saying at autonomy astrology on Instagram. You can sign up for their insights and tips on their mailing list, which I'll put in the show notes. And also, I'll pop the website in there as well. Now, just before you go, everybody, please, if you listen to this podcast, please subscribe on Spotify or wherever you listen, except our website, that doesn't need the subscription. But if you're anywhere else listening to the podcast, please do subscribe. It's super helpful. It's a lovely thank you for all the effort that we put into this show.

47:22

Speaker 1

All right, so until next time, may the wisdom of the Ancients guide you. The warmth of your heart comfort you, and the sacred cauldrons within you find harmony and balance.