Rhonda McCrimmon (00:03.466)

Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Shaman Talk. My name's Rhonda and I'm your host and this week I am delighted to welcome Dave Beroset to the show. Now Dave, and I met earlier this year when Dave came for a one-to-one opportunity with me and I had such a good time. You know sometimes you just have these students slash clients who come and you really...

gel and you both learn things and you have a great time in the container and it was just such a such a real delight to work with Dave. And then he decided to come and join the practitioner training which he's now in the middle of. And Dave's really interesting because he left a career as a director of training in corporate America to search for something deeper and more fulfilling and then he worked for a long time over a decade.

working with teachers and training around intuition, somatics, experiential learning and being with the sacred. And Dave started Spiritus Training, which is a coaching practice working with groups and individuals that seek to balance that dominance of the mind that we talk about here with the listening of the heart. And his practice that he teaches is called Awareness Training. And I think that was around 10 years ago.

And anybody who's interested in Dave's work after this, I'll find him on Instagram and I'll put all the links in the show notes. But why I invited Dave onto the podcast is because one of the things I really want to share with people is how shamanism is really not an either or kind of thing and how it can really blend and weave whatever you do in your life.

So I'm really delighted to speak to Dave and have him share some of his experiences. So welcome Dave, thank you for coming.

Dave Beroset (01:56.204)

It's great to be here.

Rhonda McCrimmon (01:58.822)

I would love it if you could start off by sharing something about your background and life and business and then the inevitable question of how did you end up in shamanism?

Dave Beroset (02:10.176)

Yes. Well, I'll try to keep this brief. So back, this is now 25 years ago. So right around 2000, 1999, I really had, it was at a place where it was somewhat of a crisis for me. I had, my marriage of eight years was ending. I was doing okay as a director of training, but it wasn't really my passion. It was.

only it just wasn't it just felt very flat. Life felt very flat. It felt not very much in the way of possibility or just like everything. All the important decisions had been made. And it was just now time to ride the tracks for the rest of life. So it had me leave the corporate America, which was very much a training of the mind. It was

You've referred to it like it's the masculine, right? It's the creation, it's the intellect, it's the building. And just search for something deeper because I wasn't getting what I wanted from the life that I had created. So, as you said, I started working with a lot of different teachers.

working with the sacred, working with somatic experiences to kind of get a sense to get into my heart. I was so in my head. I lived 100% from here up. And I wasn't even aware of that because it was normal. That's how everybody is in my world, or at least how my world used to be. And so I spent a lot of time sinking into

my heart listening. And that, I think, was an exploration of about more than 10 years, and it's ongoing, of the feminine, right, as the mystery and the receptive and access to the divine, to the sacred. And it took me a long time because, well, because of where I started. So that's...

Dave Beroset (04:38.208)

brought me to this sense of I want to coach, I want to train, I want to help people. But what I was finding was that the sort of standard coaching was all about, you know, creating accountability and getting it didn't deal with heart. It didn't deal with the sacred. It didn't deal with people's connection, which I think is their birthright to their own inner divine. And nobody can.

tell you what that is, but you have to explore it. And so that's a summary of the 24 years that brought me to your door and the center of Shaman.

Rhonda McCrimmon (05:18.171)

Hahaha!

Rhonda McCrimmon (05:23.234)

Great. And then, how did you find us? How did you end up looking? Were you looking for Shaman as I am or...?

Dave Beroset (05:29.48)

Well, I have been looking for a while because it's my belief that I broke my own card in a rule. Anybody who is coaching should also be coached. It's got to be a two-way thing. If you don't, it just starts going sideways. For a long time, I had been looking for something and I wasn't even sure what I was looking for. I actually saw one of your...

30 second blips on Instagram. That's how I first saw you. And I went, oh, in fact, I've said it to you. It's like, wow, that was like breath of fresh air. It was clean. It had boundaries. It was connected. Like who you were being was impressive. And so I checked it out, you know, cent And...

I thought, oh, this is really interesting. And you have a lot of resources that are just free resources online that you can check things out. So I read through anything, you know, I kind of did a deep dive and I got to, you have a particular journey that's a recorded journey, which is like a, think of it as like a meditation, if you're not familiar with what a journey is. It's like a guided meditation of sorts. And it was the journey of the three cauldrons.

And honestly, this sounds bad to say, but my expectations were low. I thought, you know, it's an online recording. This might be interesting. And that was the 23rd of December, 2022. Yes, that's how significant I still remember the day. And I took this journey and it rocked my world. Like I.

Dave Beroset (07:21.176)

I went deep and was able to really see some of the things that had been stopping me. And more to the point, some of the things that had leached away the joy and the connection. Because over time in the last couple of years, I've just been sort of, it's been wonderful, it's been fine, and it hasn't had that sort of juice so much working with people.

And so I was.

I don't even know what to say. I was shocked that it impacted me so much. So I immediately like, now I'm really diving in. I'm like, I must've listened to 15 of your podcasts because they're like really good information and went through the whole thing. And then on your Instagram feed, I feel like it was a little bit of fake where you said, doesn't happen very often. And it does happen very often where you have one-on-one.

availability, like where you're going to do a three-month coaching, learning. And I was like, oh, I have to do this. So I immediately signed up for it and it was amazing and it was fun. And you know, it's one of those things where I didn't really know how deep this was going to go. And I still...

I'm not at the bottom. Every time I think, OK, I think I, no, I don't understand this. OK, keep going. Keep going deeper. And the three-month experience was absolutely a spring cleaning of looking at my own boundaries. It was not about me teaching anybody else. It was me doing spring cleaning on me. And that was lovely and perhaps a little overdue.

Dave Beroset (09:23.868)

And, you know, when I was a month into that training, I heard about the practitioner training, which is a pretty extensive, deep training. It's like two years, a little over. And I remember telling you, you must have thought I was a little crazy. I'm like, I want to do this. I need to do this. How do I sign up for this? Because I want this. This is the direction. And you're so lovely, so polite. And you're like, well.

Rhonda McCrimmon (09:52.496)

HAHAHA

Dave Beroset (09:53.772)

you would need to do is to do the apprenticeship, which is a three-month program. Fine. Okay. How do I sign up for that? And I'm letting you know afterwards I'm doing the practitioner training. I was so in. It was funny. So, and that is the rest as they say is history. And here I am really just a little over a year and a couple of months later having just an extraordinary experience of

Rhonda McCrimmon (10:21.998)

Mm.

Dave Beroset (10:23.232)

my connection with the divine, with spirit. Yeah, I can go on. But that's, I've just had a set of tools. The training that I received prior was sort of spotty. Like I am so good at holding an energetic space. I am really good. I have tons of training around that. But then,

If you go just a little bit this way, there'd be stuff I know nothing about. And I'm like, why hasn't anybody told me this? So for me, your training and the Center for Shamanism, it created sort of a container for me to almost organize all of this learning and training and to understand it. And it's such a beautiful container that...

It just, I filled in some gaps that I didn't even realize I was missing.

Rhonda McCrimmon (11:29.514)

I mean that's interesting, I'd like to dive into that a little bit. So your experience is quite vast and you've done your own training and you've held space for people and I'm really interested to know, you said, why hasn't anybody told me this? Can you remember what any of that was?

Dave Beroset (11:53.224)

I remember my first aha where I was like upset at the people in my past who never told me this. Yes. So one of the things that I do and I've done it for years is I will open a space, right? When I'm speaking to someone or when we're doing some sort of a even just, you know, my coaching, I will open what I would call a sacred space. And, you know, that would be like lighting a candle or

something that sort of creates this connection, whether it's remote or in person. And what...

Maybe nobody told me, maybe I just wasn't in a space to listen. I didn't really know that once you're complete with that person and you've created this lovely connection in space, you have to close the space. You have to, you're laughing because you know the impact if you don't do that. So I'm working with one, two, three, four people a day and I'm opening another space and opening another space and opening another space and then wondering why.

the heck am I so drained? It's because I haven't closed any spaces. So I've got this sort of trail of energetic connections dragging behind me. And I would do something like, I'm a big believer in Epsom salt baths, and that would ground me out and sort of close it down. But one of the first things that I learned in how you worked with...

people and how I should work with people is that when you are done with a space, whatever the space is for, you close that space by actually saying, thank you, having gratitude, and closing the space. That's it. So simple. When I first started doing it, working with people, I immediately could tell the difference. Big difference in just how I felt and how present I was for the next person.

Dave Beroset (13:59.392)

because there wasn't like the other energy in this energy. So that seems like a very small thing, but I didn't know what I didn't know. That would be only one of a lot of examples. That's the first one that was a aha for me.

Rhonda McCrimmon (14:19.339)

Mmm.

So taking a little segue, how would you describe shamanism to someone who is unfamiliar with it, especially someone who is more in your area, coaching, business? Like how would you describe shamanism?

Dave Beroset (14:38.176)

someone who doesn't have a drum and a rattle in their office. Yes. Yeah, it's funny, I just had a conversation yesterday with a new client and he has a background that is not really, this is not familiar with him. And so the way I described it is I...

spoke to him saying, look, you will get with me all of the regular coaching and training and building the witness to watch who, you know, all of that, you will get that. But I want you to also know that one of the things that we'll be working with is reacquainting you with your own connection to the divine, whatever that looks like. And

That is unique to you, so no one can tell you what that is or what that looks like. But what my experience has been is that when I am working with people, it's really important that they listen to and validate that guidance, that soul alignment, if you want to call it that. And I actually said to them, I said, now, that isn't for everybody. And if that isn't

something that you're up for, I'm probably not the coach for you. And it's very interesting. That's kind of some version of a conversation that I've had quite a bit. And almost without exception.

The answer is, oh, yeah, absolutely.

Rhonda McCrimmon (16:28.663)

Do you feel like it's quite a needed thing that's missing somewhat?

Dave Beroset (16:32.66)

missing. Yeah, it's missing in our culture. It's in this particular person was a man. It's particularly missing in men for a variety of reasons, biological and cultural. But, you know, men in particular, and I work of course with both men and women, and but I find that men in particular have been trained to not pay attention.

to that intuition. There's a popular expression, a women's intuition, but intuition is a human thing. And women in particular often will have an easier time natively to connect, but both men and women get trained out of it. Oh, that's just my imagination. Or they do what I call subcontracted out.

Oh, well, you know, my listening to the divine, I'm gonna let somebody else tell me what that could be. And at the end of the day, we all have to try on what's right for us and accept or shift or, it can't be taught by someone else. It has to be an inner exploration.

And the other thing that I didn't mention that to this guy, but this is separate from religion. So it's not as you said, either or it's not an either or, oh, well, but I can't do this because I'm a Baptist or I can't do this because whatever. I'm an atheist. This is. Fundamental to the nature of being.

human. So in my world, really the only belief that you need to bring into a shamanistic practice is that some sense that there is unity and wholeness, the universe is a whole thing, and that we are all interconnected. Everything in the universe is connected with everything else in the universe.

Dave Beroset (19:01.232)

I would say that there is a spiritual dimension to reality. Like it's not just what you can see, feel here. It's not just the three dimensions of time. There's something beyond that. Or at least be open to that as a possibility.

Rhonda McCrimmon (19:22.072)

Hmm. So, sorry, Dave.

Dave Beroset (19:22.3)

And I don't, I was going to say, and I don't hear anything in that, that is contrary to whatever beliefs you bring.

Rhonda McCrimmon (19:35.698)

Yeah, well you said something a second ago about men in particular missing that intuitive connection and you mentioned women's intuition and as I am not a man I'm always interested in getting a different perspective because I know how I feel about it. Why do you think men, what are the reasons that men miss that connection do you think?

Dave Beroset (19:57.068)

Hmm. Ah.

Dave Beroset (20:03.444)

I guess I'll speak to why I missed it. I can't speak for men, I don't know. And from my experience, I mean, so this spiritual dimension for me was a lived reality and it has been my entire life. I spent my teens and my 20s fundamentally unconscious.

Rhonda McCrimmon (20:09.454)

I'm going to go to bed.

Dave Beroset (20:32.988)

as a whole other podcast, but absolutely have always had and really struggled with this empathic ability, curse, gift, whatever you want to call it, and have always experienced

Dave Beroset (20:54.176)

this connection that I could not explain, I could not just analyze that was there. So for me, it isn't a question of, hmm, is it or isn't, it's a lived experience and I've had it so long that I just, it's, I can't deny it. Don't want to. So what I would say is that in my growing up, that is not something

culturally that men do. It's not accepted particularly. It's not considered manly in many cultures, at least in my culture. We're expected to be tough. We're expected to...

Dave Beroset (21:48.276)

we're not expected or encouraged to listen to our own intuition. We just aren't. And part of the experience, at least for me, in becoming, growing up, is that the expectation was that I'd be strong, that I'd be independent, that I'd be on my own.

Dave Beroset (22:18.728)

And part of reconnecting to the divine is actually...

opposite of that. It's like, no, you aren't on your own. And no, you're not even actually in charge. And that is a very difficult thing to, when you haven't had any experience with.

Rhonda McCrimmon (22:46.83)

Thanks, that's lovely. Alright, let me have another think. What do we, where do we want to go next? Alright, what I reckon I would like to know, because you know, you won't be integrating Germanic practices explicitly in your work yet because you haven't graduated, but it just comes in naturally, doesn't it? Anyway, just in the way that we are and how we live and how we interact with people. But...

Dave Beroset (23:06.988)

Yeah.

Rhonda McCrimmon (23:16.022)

I'm wondering if you are thinking about how you'll integrate shamanic practices into your business and if you've had any challenges that you have come up against with that and you know what are your thoughts around how you'll do that do you think?

Dave Beroset (23:30.708)

Yeah, that's a good question. And it's one that's been much on my mind. So I have an answer, or at least an answer for now. So the main challenge that I have come up against is right here, is actually choosing to be public and bold and say, hey, this is who I am.

and this is where I stand and you may like it or you may not like it, but this is where I am. That takes a certain amount of courage, you know, to open yourself up to that. Now, my experience has been that most people that I do share what I'm up to with are

actually mostly really curious because it's such there's such hunger for this there's hunger for a reconnection with um with spirit and to do that within community one thing that i learned from you is that i had kind of forgotten is that this work is meant to be done in community this is not work yes you have to do your own work but it must be done in community

It's so much harder if you don't. And for me, I had to overcome my sort of independent, I'll do it on my own, which is my default setting for everything, to be able to begin to connect with community. And how I'll integrate it, I really see it as most of my coaching is, you know, like six months.

And so I really see how there would be like a six month span and you have to start with some basic awareness training. The awareness training is sort of bringing up to the conscious what is the automaticness that we bring into that. So that's like a basic and that was in your apprentice program. I was like, oh, I sailed through those chapters. I'm like, yeah, I know this. I do this for a living. And then...

Dave Beroset (25:56.224)

then I got stuck later. So there's a piece of that. And I kind of see that there would be two journeys, like one in the first third and one in the second third, like, and what exactly those will be, but they would be direct shamanic experiences where I work with somebody and has a shaman, a shamanic practitioner, and call on guides and do either.

power retrieval or something that would be in the shamanic bag of tricks, depending on what was needed. And then there would be a time to integrate and then a second one and then a time to integrate because I feel like it needs to almost be like tent poles, like we have a chance to integrate it and have another experience and integrate that and see where it goes. And so that's kind of what I see.

as the sort of model and that makes me feel pretty good about how I'm gonna integrate this directly.

Rhonda McCrimmon (27:03.51)

That's very exciting. I can't wait to see what you do. It's going to be really cool. So then let's ask a similar question but around your kind of personal journey, your personal growth, how has that been influenced, your life, how has your life been influenced by your shamanic training and your shamanic practice?

Dave Beroset (27:22.9)

That's, yeah, that's a great question. That's actually been the, it's my personal life and my own journey that's been impacted the most because I haven't really integrated this other than who I'm being. I think first and foremost, I've done work with boundaries with people, with others and boundary work, but you know.

You are the grand champion of boundaries. I appreciate that. And what I've known, you know, I've done enough work. I don't have toxic people in my life. My life, you know, I've got amazing people in my life, mostly. And what I saw for myself was my boundaries were, I wasn't, how do I say this?

this is a man thing, I think, although not exclusively so, but I was that I didn't even look about what I wanted or needed in a moment. Like even with my wife, I've been married for 20 years now, amazing you being Nicole, and like I wouldn't say, hey, here's what I want, or here's what I need in a conversation. And it

That wouldn't stop me from resenting her for not giving the thing that I didn't ask for. Yeah, exactly. It's a little insane when you say it out loud, but that's how it was. And so for me, the process of working through these boundaries has been life-changing and it is absolutely freshened up and brought fresh air into our, you know.

20 plus year relationship, which has been lovely. I think the second piece again, related to the whole independence thing is, I still wrestle with that asking my guides, asking, checking in with that divine, the spirit, is not the first thing I do, but the last thing I do. Like.

Dave Beroset (29:46.224)

If nothing else works, if my knowledge and experience doesn't work, then I'll go, all right, so what have you got for me, spirit? And it's yeah, it is kind of funny. And part of the training, your amazing practitioner training has been to begin to. How that be, you know, I wake up.

I check in as opposed to I wake up, I go into a ditch, I check in. And so just prioritizing it and having it be a guiding principle rather than a break glass in case of an emergency kind of thing. Ha ha ha.

Rhonda McCrimmon (30:33.546)

I might, I might steal that one Dave, I like that, that's really funny. Um, all right so I'm quite curious if you've, because I don't know the answer to this question, but have you worked with any other shamanic modalities, like any other cultures or yeah you want to talk about that a little bit?

Dave Beroset (30:50.44)

Yeah, so I have about 15 years ago, I was certified as a practitioner in a thing called reunion. And it's actually, I should give them a shout out, the Inner Nature's Research Institute. It's a man named Peter Scuppum has developed it. And that's...

It's a distant cousin of kinesiology. So it uses muscle testing and that sort of thing. But it has a strong shamanic component. It absolutely is tapping into the connection and that information, using that for healing. And I love that. I use that and have used that for a lot of years.

Dave Beroset (31:47.428)

That's probably the thing that I am most trained in that I still use today. Part of some of the other training in that 10 year period after I quit corporate America was learning to be with the sacred. And that's something that I had zero training in and I appreciate my teachers for being very patient.

with my disrespectful, unintentionally disrespectful self, but just not understanding what it means to be present to the sacred. Not like following rules, but just.

to set your ego aside and your mind aside and just be present with the sacred. And that was a deep learning that's probably still going on today. And it is probably the single thing that I have learned that has brought me the quality of life that I have today is to just simply be present to the sacred and allow it.

to have a space in my life.

Rhonda McCrimmon (33:04.543)

Mmm. Lovely. Alright Dave, give us your favourite book. Like the book that you would love everybody you know. Everybody you know should read this book. What's your favourite?

Dave Beroset (33:18.348)

That's a tough one. So probably I happily, I'm looking at a bookshelf full of books behind my desk, of course.

Dave Beroset (33:30.688)

So, okay, so I'm gonna answer it this way. Hopefully this will get you what you want. I have two books that I am, I have a new reading that's probably is a pretty cool one. And that, oh, this is the Imagination Matrix. It's by Steven Eisenstadt, the Imagination Matrix. And the reason I, this is my current,

go to looking at reading is that it talks about imaginal intelligence. So it's actually looking at almost a somatic and neurological take on imagination. And the reason I think that's a good book for everybody to read or people to read if they're interested is that again, training in the culture, the training in the culture is that we dismiss anything that comes up in imagination.

Like it's a, yeah, like, oh, that was, you even hear it. That was only my imagination. Well, yeah, it was your imagination. It's information. Don't dismiss it so quickly. So for those who are like all left brain science based and they want a little bit more encouragement to look deeply at imagination and perhaps in a different way that they've never seen it before, the imagination matrix is really good. Now.

I don't want this to come across like I'm bringing a teacher to Apple or Apple a teacher to Apple to the teacher. But this one, you may, you may be familiar. Now let me tell you why. Because notice it's sort of I've only had it since January. It's already kind of well worn. Here's why I like this. Why I'm using this like using it like a textbook, not just reading it is that it

Rhonda McCrimmon (35:25.294)

In case, in case anybody doesn't know what, in case you're not watching this, Dave's holding up my book.

Dave Beroset (35:30.064)

Oh, sorry. The author is Wanda McCrimmon, the cauldron and the drum, just released, much anticipated, at least by me and many others. Here's why I like this book. Here's why this book has been really useful to me, especially inside of the practitioner training, is it's practical. I am at my heart, a very practical person. I am not what's the expression.

navel gazing for its own sake has not really been an interest for me. If it doesn't make a impactful real life embodied difference in my life, I'm not that interested over time. And so right now actually I am working on the exercises of the middle cauldron. So for those of you who know, it doesn't matter, we're not going to go into middle cauldron, you know, you have to log on to the...

So for shamanism.com for that. But again, not just bringing an apple to a teacher, but genuinely, this is a really good resource for me. Can I give you one more? I can't just give you one more. Okay, one more. This one, this one.

Rhonda McCrimmon (36:41.394)

on then. Come on, let's do it. One for each, one for each cauldron Dave.

Dave Beroset (36:47.276)

That's it. Perfect. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. You know, you're right. This is absolutely upper cauldron, right? Like it's that sort of in the god of intelligence and education and information. And this is middle cauldron for sure for me. And this one is Fool's Crow. It's by Thomas Maels. And this I actually learned about inside of the practitioner training. I

I don't know where I have been for the last however many years, but I did not know anything about Fool's Grove, who was an American Indian extraordinary person, and Asham in the Native American culture. And I just find this really inspirational. And one of the things he says in this book is anybody can follow the path that I took.

You just have to do the things and anybody can follow the path. And I love that because that is absolutely consistent with my belief that anybody can follow this path of how, wherever it leads. And for me, it's led to Celtic shamanism and all that I, that holds for me. It really resonates with me, but, but really regardless of your path.

It's available to everyone. There is no one who is excluded from a connection to the divine.

Rhonda McCrimmon (38:22.73)

Amen. Ah, amen. So true. That's so true. And yet, I was going to ask you something, but I'm going to take a little segue, and yet, what I find, or what I've noticed about the US and Canada is that there seem to be a lot of people who are spiritually displaced. So they're not welcome necessarily by some, certainly not by all, but by many, they're not welcome

Dave Beroset (38:24.649)

Thank you.

Dave Beroset (38:45.088)

Hmm.

Rhonda McCrimmon (38:52.442)

practice the indigenous, earth-based spirituality of the lands where they were born, even if they don't originally belong there. And then they come, they find Britain and they come to Britain and they find a wall here as well where maybe there's quite a lot of people that I have seen in the British native spirituality community who are really anti-US and are like, you're not from here, you can't practice this either. And I'm like, where are they supposed to go?

like what do you mean? What do you mean? So to me I'm like educate yourself for sure, like learn as much as you can about the lands where you live and be appreciative and thoughtful and connected and loving and compassionate for sure. But like you say earth-based spirituality is open to everyone and if we go back far enough we all have indigenous ancestors somewhere.

and you just have to find the path that's right for you. There are a million paths to heaven, you just gotta find the one that works for you. And that's one of my favorite things to talk about. So thanks for giving me a wee chance to do that.

Dave Beroset (40:02.304)

And you know, there's, we are the USC Americans. We are a nation of transplants, of immigrants. And so our, and that's one of the things I've actually struggled with. There's a piece that you talked about, which is, you know, what is an appreciation of a culture and what is an appropriation? And that's obviously very much in the common consciousness today and it deserves to be looked at.

You know, I actually, I do have some ancestry according to my DNA and a little bit of my family lore in Scotland and Ireland. But you know, but that's not what drew me to the Celtic shamanism. It feels right for me. And you have created an extraordinary community. And I so appreciate that because I know how much work that is to create that.

And one of the things I've struggled with though is a connection to the land. Like I live, I live just outside of a pretty big city. And so I, what I, what I realized when I started, I undertook the training with you is my connection to the land was so

unconscious, was so weak. And it's been, it's still, I have to really, it's a muscle I have to kind of grow. Where, you know, and I'm a little envious of, like somebody like yourself who grew up and you've like been connected to the land and your parents and your grandparents and your great grandparents, all going back have been connected to.

this piece of geography, it's extraordinary. I don't know what that would be like, but it sounds lovely and wonderful. But it doesn't mean that it isn't available, that connection isn't available for me. I simply have to create a connection.

Rhonda McCrimmon (42:18.477)

Mmm yep, you got it, absolutely. Alright so is there Dave a ritual or practice that you'd like to share with the listeners that they can connect with at home, one that you enjoy doing maybe?

Dave Beroset (42:31.552)

Yeah, I have a thing, it's called a body scan, body scan meditation, and most, many people will have heard of some version of the body scan, it's simply, you know, scanning up and down your body. This is a little bit different in that, it's not, it sounds kind of counterintuitive, but the reason for the scanning of body is not to relax or even to feel better. It's, it's,

Our bodies are one of the best ways that we have to get back to the present moment. You know, the domain of the mind is the future, right? The anxiety or hope, and it's the past, our experience or memories. But the one place that the mind does not actually hold dominion is the present moment of now. And the body lives in a moment.

now, if you accidentally touch a hot stove, you don't have to think about the implications of a third degree burn before your hand is already back. It's in the moment of now. And I've included in the show notes the PDF of like a more extensive way to do this. But essentially... Thank you. So...

Rhonda McCrimmon (43:54.99)

Mm-hmm. I will put that in for sure.

Dave Beroset (43:59.924)

But essentially what it is, is you begin, close your eyes, take a breath, but you're starting at your feet, then you begin to simply catalog. I think of it as like you're in a warehouse and you're writing down the inventory, you're just that unattached. Like this is what's happening with my feet. Like I feel I'm wearing slippers, so I feel the cloth on the top of my feet. I feel the weight in my feet. And you go up to your shins

thighs and you just move up your body. You're doing your best, and this is the key to this particular practice, you're doing your best to get under the mind label. You're not saying perhaps, oh, I am, you know, my shoulder is sore and that's like a label. What you're doing is okay, but where is it sore? And I can say right now.

my shoulders are a little tense and so I can say okay it's at the top of my shoulder right here and is it painful? No it's not painful but it's a little bit tight and there's pressure. Great so is the pressure throbbing or is it steady? And you're essentially interrogating and investigating all of these sensations but without efforting to change them. You're not

Dave Beroset (45:28.764)

And then you move on and I can go up, for instance, with my face right now and I feel that I've got a little tiny bit just below my right arm and I don't try to scratch it. I just, oh, there it is. And I can feel, if I really pay attention, I begin to feel the pressure of the, the earbuds in my ear and I feel the touch of my hair on the top of my scalp. And what you're doing

when you're doing this is again, you're not trying to fix anything. But what you're doing is you are getting under the mind and the mind labels because we're so good at labeling things and we're, you're trying through this investigation to get to the direct experience. What exactly are you feeling right now? Not the label of it, not the interpretation of the story of it, but what's happening.

And then you just go up to the top of your head and back down and you'll notice that it's changing, things arise, things fall away. And you do that once or twice and then you're done. There's no analysis, there's no figuring out. And I will say that if you do it just like that, you are more than likely to come back a little bit more present. Often, even though you've made no effort to fix

pains and tensions, you will find that they have dissipated just because you stopped making a story up about them. And it's something that you can do almost anywhere. It's so simple to do. It puts the mind on pause for just a little bit. It's a very simple thing that can be done anywhere. So that is absolutely my gift to whoever's listening.

Rhonda McCrimmon (47:19.606)

Thank you. I was just doing a little bit of that there when you were speaking and it's very helpful. You feel that? Thank you. So I will put your information in the show notes for anybody who would like to get a little bit more information. So thanks for providing that, Dave. Now, if you would like to find out more about the work that Dave does and maybe perhaps work with him, you can go to his website, which is spir

Dave Beroset (47:37.76)

Sure.

Rhonda McCrimmon (47:48.854)

You'll find them on Instagram at spir underscore Dave underscore Beresette. And again, that one's quite a long name, but you'll get that on the show notes as well. So I just really enjoyed this conversation. It's really nice to get your perspective. It's really nice to chat to men in this field as well. And I just really love...

the energy that you bring, the self-reflective, humble, somewhat light, somewhat funny, excellent storytelling, just really thoughtful presence that you bring to our circle and to our space. So thank you. Thank you for that, Dave. And I really appreciate you taking the time to come and talk to me today.

Dave Beroset (48:40.308)

It's such a pleasure and I love being part of your community and so appreciate having met you working with you. You are a gift to me as well. So thank you.

Rhonda McCrimmon (48:51.702)

Alright everyone, until next time, may the wisdom of the ancients guide you, the warmth of your hearth comfort you, and the sacred cauldrons within you find harmony and balance. Alright, so if you stay on Dave, don't go anywhere, because I think there's a thing that we have to do. I'm not sure if I'm going to use this again, it's called Riverside. Let me just turn this stop.