Rhonda (00:01.742)
Hi everyone, welcome back to Shaman Talk. I’ve been on a long break. You know me, I take these breaks sometimes, but we’re over a hundred episodes in. Can’t remember what number we’re at, 112 or something. And my guest today inspired me to kickstart the series again. So I’m really delighted to welcome Geo who is a Glasgow based witch and somebody that caught my eye on social media this year. And she’s been practicing for 25 years, she reckons. Her husband disagrees, thinks it’s longer, but…

We’re sticking with 25. And one of the things that really, the first thing that drew me to GEO was, I actually saw you on TikTok, right? First. Because obviously I’ve had my own journey with TikTok and I saw you talking about saining and I was like, Because I’ve had quite a journey talking about saining online. I got like absolutely like…

That Glagsow Witch (00:52.09)
Yeah.

Rhonda (00:55.278)
for want of a better word, witch hunted by a whole load of Scottish witches who hated me for ages and like hunted me down or like really horrible to me and made it like actually really unpleasant. So to find somebody who talks about, aye, to find somebody that talks about saining in the same kind of vein as me was really exciting. And then I saw you over on Instagram and I just started watching what you were doing and I really enjoyed the rhythm and the flow of your content. And it’s not fast was one of the things I enjoyed. It was just, and you’ve got a lovely lilt

That Glagsow Witch (01:02.054)
way.

to imagine.

Rhonda (01:25.216)
obviously you’re Scottish. So that’s where I found you and then just before we come on you’re like my god I’ve followed you as well and I’ve been to some of your classes so it’s been it’s actually really nice so we’re just gonna have a blether folks so come along come along for the ride welcome Geo so nice to have you

That Glagsow Witch (01:32.861)
For ages and ages.

That Glagsow Witch (01:43.549)
Thank so much. Thanks for having me. I feel really weird to be speaking to you because I’ve followed you for such a long time but also I feel as if you’re my next door neighbour so I can chat to you every time I like. It feels quite nice. Yeah, it is nice.

Rhonda (01:53.794)
Yeah, which is really nice. So I thought we could start, because I’m hoping that my folk will listen to this and your folk will listen to this, and it might be nice to start off by saying that I find my way to Scottish folk magic and Scottish nature-based practices in general through shamanism, and you find your way here to that genre through witchcraft. So my story is that…

That Glagsow Witch (02:02.778)
Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (02:16.518)
Mm-hmm.

That Glagsow Witch (02:20.805)
I

Rhonda (02:23.896)
My parents were both really spiritual but not in very healthy ways. So there was lots of things that I was immersed in growing up and then my dad died and it was a whole thing. And then I accidentally found myself in a shamanic class, like a German class. And it was amazing. It was like cliche coming home, the most profound, one of the most profound moments of my life, not the most profound moment, but one of them. And I thought, this is it. This is what I want to do. And it saved my life in more ways than I can count.

told this story a lot but for anybody who’s new to me this is the idea. So then I trained, I used to be an accountant, corporate, yeah all that. I used to run St Andrews essentially, well not really but the town centre of St Andrews I used to be the business improvement area manager for St Andrews which is what I did when I was training to be a shaman which was very, it was actually fun and quite helpful.

That Glagsow Witch (03:11.708)
That sounds incredibly stressful.

Yeah.

Rhonda (03:16.748)
Honestly, like the shamanic part, like bringing in the spiritual to that really stressful job made it much easier as it happens. So then, as soon as I could get out of that, this has been my full time job for a decade. So it’s great, I love it. But somewhere along the way I was like, what am I missing? Like, what is it? And then I met some wonderful people who brought in the idea that, we have our own.

nature-based practices in Britain. We don’t need to go all over the world to find them. So then I did a deep dive, found my way into a lot of the native practices, which was really exciting. And then took a lot of flak from people because they don’t like the label that I use and they don’t like the fact that I call it shamanism or Celtic shamanism. But the way I see it or think about it is that, that’s how I find my way here. I would never have known that we had what we have and I would not be doing my bit.

That Glagsow Witch (03:47.814)
you

Rhonda (04:11.629)
preserve our culture if I didn’t find my way to it through shamanism. So there will be other people like that as well and I see that as kind of my small role in this because witchcraft never appealed to me. It wasn’t something called to my soul. So you find your way here down a different path. What’s your story?

That Glagsow Witch (04:15.6)
Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (04:31.62)
I did. So my origin story, I wish it was really, I used to think my origin story was really unique and dead, you know, niche. And then I started speaking about it online and all these women were like, me too. So I, about that kind of 14 year old brain change that we get, my,

Rhonda (04:35.041)
Nice.

That Glagsow Witch (04:58.524)
found myself in a spiritual, in the only kind of occult spiritual shot in the town that I lived in at the time. I just absolutely loved every single bit of it. It was all, it was in the nineties, so it was all very Wicca centric. So everything was about Wicca and Gerald Gardner and all of these rules and laws that you had to put in place. But I was really lucky because the woman who ran that shot

Rhonda (05:12.717)
Mm.

That Glagsow Witch (05:28.218)
was like, this is stuff that’s based off of Scottish practice and English practice and Welsh practice and practices from Norway. So it’ll speak about you, but you’ll get nothing to do with us. And I was like, so that was my first day one page one. Someone said we have this. We have this in our in our culture. And I was really lucky because I grew up in Glasgow and Glasgow is

split down the middle when it comes to religion. We’ve got the green on, well I’m going to call it green and blue, that’s got nothing to do with it, but we’ve got green on one side and blue on the other. And my mum is on one side of that and my dad was on the other side of it and both of them decided that my sister and I were not going to be brought up in any formalised religion and actively encouraged us to go and find answers to our big deep spiritual questions outside of that religion. And I didn’t quite

Rhonda (06:09.581)
Mmm.

That Glagsow Witch (06:26.318)
understand what a gift that was until I’m like a full adult. My dad was a huge reader and real understander of Carl Gustav Jung and he, I know, so my dad would quote Jungian quotes to us from I was a little girl.

Rhonda (06:45.877)
Love, Young.

Rhonda (06:52.109)
Hmm.

That Glagsow Witch (06:55.292)
And I grew up understanding about the collective unconscious and about archetypes and about the layers of, you know, the energy round about us and that just never seemed unusual to me. So when I had this conversation with this woman in this metaphysical shop in a town centre, I was like, oh, OK, I totally get that and I understand it. began kind of practising then and I was 14. So that was 30 years ago. My husband likes to remind me.

But I don’t think I formally called myself inside my own head a witch until I was about 19 or 20. And that was because I had my own place, I had my own house and I was able to… Not that my mum and dad would have bothered if I had stuff in the house, but I was clumsy. So if I had candles lit, they’d be like, put them out, you’re going to burn our house down. you know, I’m just saying that as I’ve earned something coming on before I came on the phone to you.

Rhonda (07:47.508)
Hahaha

That Glagsow Witch (07:55.163)
But it is a… So that it started there and I’ve just practiced. I’ve read books, I’ve gone to occasional meetups. had teachers who are not within witchcraft circles who are Buddhist monastics and shamans because you are in that journey of mine. You are a in my wall. People who communicate with angels. have, you know…

There’s been so many people in my lineage that have taught me things and because I’m looking at it through a veil of this is a witchcraft practice then that is really added to the humus of my life. It’s really made my experience be less than just I’m reading that book and that book says I do X, Y or Z. So I’ve just really enjoyed.

And I think it’s kind of like, you know, when you grew up in the 90s, you got to do loads of stuff and make loads of mistakes and there was no social media and no evidence to say, this is what you did. That’s what my witchcraft journey has been like. Thankfully, that’s what my journey has been like because there wasn’t any social media. There was barely like group chats online to talk about these things.

Rhonda (09:01.751)
Mm-hmm.

Thankfully.

Rhonda (09:19.159)
Like MSN Messenger maybe? But that was later, wasn’t it?

That Glagsow Witch (09:21.116)
MSN Messenger, absolutely. Well, but things like that and then literally, like Discord is like the new version of the stuff back then, but you had all these chat rooms before. And I just never got involved in any of that stuff hugely. And if people had a different opinion from me, I was like, okay, that’s fine. But I didn’t ever feel that I needed to justify the way that I felt about a thing or thought.

if I read it and it rang true with me then I took it as part of my practice and if it didn’t then I left it and fully accepted it might ring true with me in two or three years. the social media thing has just been new to me. Sharing my practice with people has been new to me and on that scale because my friends will tell you for the last

15, 20 years I’ve casually being like, we need to go to the beach tonight. Taking them down to places where we’ve been on like girls trips away. I’m like, it’s a full moon. We’re going down here, bring your candles and we’ll do our thing.

That’s just, people have just accepted that that’s how I’ve been so I’ve never felt like I’ve had to like come out or follow a path or anything. I’ve spoken about being a witch more in the last, well since January than I ever have in my entire life and it’s been a bit weird but also really lovely because I’ve got this beautiful community online who are just gorgeous and when I tell you

Rhonda (10:43.383)
Hmm.

That Glagsow Witch (11:05.88)
I know that you said that you obviously got really dragged by those saving people at the beginning. I think I can count on both hands the amount of times I’ve had comments that I’ve been like, well, you’re getting blocked. And that’s it. I don’t not like arguing with people, but I really like to be able to have good discussion with people to help them understand why it is that…

Rhonda (11:22.594)
Hmm.

That Glagsow Witch (11:34.48)
they are so offended by whatever it is that they think they’re perceiving that I’m doing wrong. Because I know I’m not wrong because it’s my practice. So I quite like to engage with women.

Rhonda (11:41.387)
Yeah, that’s really interesting. Exactly. Like the whole social media thing’s wild. Sorry, Geo-Oz. I think there’s a wee delay there.

That Glagsow Witch (11:49.648)
That’s okay. You carry on.

Rhonda (11:55.156)
Okay, I was just saying that the social media thing’s wild. I got on TikTok just at the start of Covid, just took a notion, well it’s not a notion is it, for me it’s like a wee, like, sense of things. I was like, alright okay, and I, for the most part have been the same, I have to say it’s been 95 % positive. So I ended up coming away from TikTok a bit, because I found it, I got a bit wild westy for a while, it was a bit much, there was a lot of like…

That Glagsow Witch (12:05.402)
Yeah, you get put in the test.

That Glagsow Witch (12:21.371)
you

Rhonda (12:23.671)
that you’re describing this backwards and forwards and the arguments and I thought energetically that’s not who I am as a person, it’s not what I want to spend my time doing. So I skipped over to Instagram and I’ve been doing that for a while and I’ll just get very few comments of people. I mean I use word shamanism so I think I get a bit more grief for that. But even just like trying to explain to people that shamanism isn’t Native American.

That Glagsow Witch (12:31.568)
Yeah.

Rhonda (12:51.661)
If you want to get really technical about it, it’s not, they never use that word, but people come at me for that or they’ll come at me for nature-based practices in general because it should only be Native Americans. It’s like, did you have you read a book? Like, I don’t feel like I can actually educate you to the point that it would be okay for us to have a discussion. Like, this is silly. So I don’t do that.

That Glagsow Witch (12:51.868)
No, it’s good.

Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (13:10.46)
That’s the type of conversation though I’m like okay let’s unpack that come and sit down and we’ll chat about it and I really like those conversations but my husband really wonderfully reminded me that the internet is like your local community and sometimes in your local community you’ve got some guy who just screams at cars going past and you don’t need to engage in conversation with that guy because you’ll be there all day.

Rhonda (13:38.893)
Exactly. Yeah, I like that.

That Glagsow Witch (13:39.728)
and tomorrow you’ll be back screaming at cars. So I need to, when I find those people I’m like, okay. Okay.

Rhonda (13:47.566)
Yeah, and like energetically I’ve had quite an interesting journey with it. Cause it did like kick off really quickly. Like, so my TikTok was similar to your Instagram in the beginning. It was just like whoosh, and I was at 180,000 before the blink of an eye. So it’s quite an energetic shift having that much energy focused on you. So if anyone who doesn’t know, Geo came onto Instagram in January and is now at 220,000 followers last I checked.

That Glagsow Witch (14:04.092)
Wow.

That Glagsow Witch (14:15.472)
two thirty this morning. Those numbers don’t mean anything to me. Those numbers don’t mean anything to me but people…

Rhonda (14:16.651)
which is amazing. With 230, woohoo!

Well, I mean, to be honest, as a business person, the numbers don’t mean anything unless you can actually engage in a meaningful way. And if this is what you do, it’s like bringing people into some sort of, I mean, you do your stay-in workshop, that’s one thing I’ve seen that you’re doing, which is amazing. But just for the sake of it, be really fulfilling, actually, when you’re just educating people online. And for me, I’m also like, here’s loads of these stuff, I do my podcasts and I do loads of…

That Glagsow Witch (14:37.019)
Thank you.

That Glagsow Witch (14:43.867)
Yeah

That Glagsow Witch (14:50.214)
Thank

Rhonda (14:50.797)
got like a free community and all kinds of things I do. And then from that naturally flows abundance because then people want to work with you more. And there’s like, there can be a really like positive way that one can interact with social media in a way that’s really meaningful to the community. I think there’s a lot of, hear a lot of people talk about, I don’t like social media and I don’t like doing it and it’s shit. And it’s just like, no, it’s like crap. And I don’t like selling myself. And I’m like, well, I’ve never sold myself. I’ve just shown up. And well, I do.

That Glagsow Witch (15:15.985)
day.

again.

Rhonda (15:20.749)
myself. But in the beginning it wasn’t about that, it was like oh I’m here giving value because I wish I’d had this and for the most part that’s still what I do and then naturally things come out of it because it’s like the intention that you’re putting into it in the first place. So why did you start, why did you suddenly decide to start doing social media? Tell me.

That Glagsow Witch (15:33.084)
Okay.

That Glagsow Witch (15:41.543)
So I started to, I started to, so the process of it started long before I put my first video out. I didn’t just wake up one morning and be like, let’s stick this on here. I had been having a discussion with some, I’ve got this group of friends, there’s six of us and we’ve been friends for 15 years at least. And it’s my first ever, it was my first ever group of female friends who are flame fanners.

they literally are like, what is it you’re doing? And then they add fuel to that and they’ve just, there’s no competition or no, argy bargy or no, none of that goes on. And that’s the first time that I had that as a 30 year old woman finding these women. So we don’t see each other loads. We see, we’ve got a group chat like everyone else, but we were at a concert in Glasgow, and this really beautiful singer and we were in a church.

and they all turned, as we do, speak to one another about the things that we’re doing and they said, and this was in October, and they said, so what you do next? what, cause I’ve got one of those ADHD brains where I’m always doing like, I’m doing a wood carving projector, I’m like, or I’ve always got, I’ve got the hobbies that I’ve had could fill a room for people to pick up their own hobbies of doing all the things that they want to do. And I said nothing.

And they went, that’s not like you. I went, no, I know, I just don’t, there’s nothing, nothing. And they were like, well, what’s wrong? I was like, nothing’s wrong. just, I don’t want to do anything just now. like, I feel as if I want to do something, but I can’t think what it is. And I’ve got no idea. And one of my friends is, I swear she carries like a…

a whiteboard, a retractable whiteboard in her pocket. So she had it out and she was like, OK, let’s look at your objectives about your life and what you’re doing and we’ll get you a five month plan and what’s in front you. So and she’s lovely and I love that she does that because she really makes you question yourself a lot. And I had said, just really, I’m really enjoying just leaning into my practice and doing the stuff that I’m doing. And I’ve been looking at

That Glagsow Witch (18:02.424)
making it accessible for my daughter. But I know that she’s not going to read my books because in every book I’ve got there’s like scrawled notes in the margins of things and the likelihood that my kid’s going to pick them up and read through the stuff that I’ve written about these books is pretty low. And she had said, well why don’t you think about something that’s familiar to her? And I thought well

TikTok’s familiar to her so I started making videos and in my head it was to make sure that she understood where her Celtic heritage comes from from a point of view of magic and the first video that I made was a video about seinen and it was on Hugmanay and I posted that on Hugmanay on the 31st of December and it got 140,000 views overnight

And I was just absolutely blown away. was like watching that on New Year’s Day going, what’s going on? And that’s been the start of the process. it was my… and my videos were for her and are for her. And while I understand that there’s people watching, every video that I put out is so that when my kid doesn’t have access to me to speak to her, then she has access to me to speak to her.

Rhonda (19:27.757)
Thanks

Rhonda (19:31.117)
How old’s your daughter? How old’s your daughter?

That Glagsow Witch (19:31.324)
that’s why I do it. She’s 20. Yeah, she’s 20.

Rhonda (19:37.665)
Really nice.

Yeah. I like, that’s lovely, I might steal it. I’ve got two daughters, I’ve got a 24 year old and a, um, four year old. Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (19:50.044)
Wow, that’s a big, that’s a big hair.

Rhonda (19:54.515)
a big gap. Well the first one, like we make it, we know we’ve got jokes in the family and the first one, Eve was my beautiful accident and Marin was my beautiful plan. Yeah. It’s gorgeous. It’s so nice. And what, and there’s like four of us like, so there’s me, my two sisters and my brother and a bookend, all of the kids as well which is actually quite nice. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no it is really nice.

That Glagsow Witch (20:04.888)
well that’s, listen, that’s two little bookends of aspects of your life, so that’s beautiful.

That Glagsow Witch (20:20.052)
that’s really nice. That is really nice. That is lovely. I think that if you like, you know, I didn’t go on to social media with a plan to have a following of however many thousand people that wasn’t my thought process at all. was just to put them in for it. And I didn’t want to speak because I’ve got a Scottish accent and it’s always been the butt of the joke. Like, you you live in the UK, Scottish accent and the Irish accent is like, you know, and actually

Rhonda (20:23.564)
That’s the place.

Rhonda (20:43.34)
soon.

That Glagsow Witch (20:48.256)
Weird accents make up more of the people. We are the global majority here in the United Kingdom. So there are more of us with weirder accents than just the stuff you hear on TV.

Rhonda (20:56.033)
Yeah.

Rhonda (21:03.2)
think that’s a really interesting energy because when I started on social media it was to for a similar but slightly different reason which was like for my past self in a way like what did I not know and why all these things I had to discover for myself. The lack of elders has been a big one for me as well, the lack of people to just fucking ask who are not like…

That Glagsow Witch (21:14.492)
Mm-hmm.

That Glagsow Witch (21:22.288)
Yeah, huge. Well, there you go. I walked into that shop and I had a woman who was absolutely like, well, these are books, but you don’t have to believe everything in these books because actually, historically, X, Y and Z and I don’t know anyone who’s doing that. Like I didn’t, you know, so.

Rhonda (21:38.526)
No, exactly. And then, so if anybody’s like, I really want to like get into social media or I want to like use social media as a platform or build social media following, I think most of the people I know who are successful at it didn’t go into it for that reason. There was like a higher purpose.

That Glagsow Witch (21:52.892)
No.

I will maintain now even to this minute I’ve got absolutely no idea what I’m doing on social media people keep saying you want to you what are you asking me about questions about how many followers I’ve had and what things that I do engage more people and I’m like I don’t know where do you find that information I’ve no idea just make a video and put it out and the people like it they do

Rhonda (22:22.38)
Yeah, when I started getting more into analytics and like, yeah, when I was looking behind the scenes in analytics and thinking it would be more strategic, honestly, it just got more difficult and things dropped off, it weren’t as popular. And I went through this whole thing, I’ve been going through it last few months actually, and you’ve been quite inspiring for me to remind me, because I’ve, like maybe six, how many years has that been since COVID? Five years or six years, so there’s been a lot quite a…

That Glagsow Witch (22:45.744)
Your ship.

Rhonda (22:47.212)
different evolution. like, I just need to get back to what I do best, which is just showing up and doing videos that I want to do. So yeah, I think that’s good message.

That Glagsow Witch (22:51.996)
Yeah, I find that load. My husband occasionally says to me, are you making a video this week? And I’m like, I don’t have anything talk about. So, you know, I don’t have like a plan. I don’t sit down and think I’m going to do a video about transmutation and then I’m going to do one of that. It’s just whatever comes to me during my practice, if I’m honest, when I’m sitting at my altar.

Rhonda (23:16.268)
Mm-hmm.

That Glagsow Witch (23:20.924)
doing the stuff that keeps me whole as a human being, something might come to me and then that’s what I’d make a video about that day. And it’s as simple as that, there’s no plan. There is no plan.

Rhonda (23:30.444)
I love it.

There is no plan. There is no spoon. What’s your husband’s name?

That Glagsow Witch (23:35.142)
No,

I’m Stu. He’s a good guy. We’ll hate that. so private. like, he’s not on any of my videos or anything. He’s quite a private person. he’s a…

Rhonda (23:41.324)
I like that you’ve mentioned them like 18 times since we got on this call which I really love because like I tend to talk about Mars.

Rhonda (23:54.061)
No, yeah, mine’s like that as well, Marsbin. He’s really supportive and he loves it, but he’s like, and he’s actually been on the podcast a couple of times, he’s willing to do that as long as it’s not his face. Yeah, I know, he’s come on and like, you know, we’ve talked about, well, it was encouraging because he was a genetic scientist at one point, not now, but so he was really into science and I was the opposite. like, we talked about how we managed that together and just, and then there were another time he came on and like,

That Glagsow Witch (24:03.917)
I think that is nice.

That Glagsow Witch (24:20.592)
Wow.

Rhonda (24:23.636)
interviewed me which was really sweet and we had quite a good time so we do play it together a little we do overlap a little bit but for the most part he’s like no I’m like going come and like chop wood for me on my he’s like I’m not a thirst trap not gonna come and like

That Glagsow Witch (24:30.862)
Yeah. Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (24:38.083)
Get affected by a big wall hammer. Go for it. That’s funny. Oh, I don’t know what to do.

Rhonda (24:43.53)
Yeah, but he like makes like these… It’s like really into like, makes sacred objects, so he makes like… Have seen these? Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (24:52.402)
lovely. Yeah, aha. That’s good too.

Rhonda (24:57.12)
And then like maybe this one here from Christmas which I do love as well, my big rattle.

That Glagsow Witch (25:03.12)
Well, let me tell you about these things and I really love them all when I see people using them. I’ve got this I need to I’m working on this thought process in my head. So I’ve been vegan for over 15 years and I don’t use animal products for anything that I do and I don’t like to even if it’s like a forage thing, I don’t really like to show an animal product because I don’t want people to then go and I don’t mean on social media. I just mean in my general life, like I don’t have anything that’s, you know.

because it’s not that we don’t treat animals the way that we would have treated them a thousand years ago. There’s not the reverence there. It’s just this big mass thing. So I don’t use animal products for a whole host of reasons, but that’s one of them. But I was over at my local park and we’ve got these two beautiful big swans and their clutch didn’t work this year and she disappeared in the spring. She was just like, I’m out of here, I’m gone. And she left him on his own for ages.

Rhonda (25:53.569)
Mm.

That Glagsow Witch (26:02.28)
But she came back about four or five weeks ago and they were preening each other by the side of the pond and I was like so happy to see that she had returned and it was really lovely. And they normally just sit there, they don’t get up and move when you walk past them. They normally just sit and look at you like, what do you want? But they both got up and waddled away and they’d left like three enormously big white

Rhonda (26:24.094)
Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (26:30.818)
swan feathers and I was like thank you so I picked up those three and I brought them home and I’m I’d like to make something with them but that’s the first animal product that I’ve had in my house and I love and there’s loads of people who make beautiful drums that I like I play and I don’t play it hugely but I play the Bowden or the Wecht and it’s synthetic that I use and I’ve seen people with like

Rhonda (26:54.19)
me too.

That Glagsow Witch (27:00.892)
leather from deers that have been culled or by the side of the road. So it’s not been, there’s been no malice or anything like that in it. I don’t know where I sit with that. That’s something that I’m still, you know.

Rhonda (27:20.684)
I’ve had a big journey with that as well because we do use, we have drums that we give away and skin drums and I used to sell them but we don’t do that now, do that usually we just do giveaways but for me it’s like, I got to the point where I was like what will happen to this object if we don’t use it for something in ceremony with reverence and with love and in the case of most of our skins they would end up in landfill.

That Glagsow Witch (27:27.631)
Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (27:42.074)
Yes.

Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (27:49.048)
I knew I think that’s it. I knew.

Rhonda (27:49.292)
they would just end up in the rubbish. if we have… So we sometimes we have like we get horse skins from people who have had beloved pets.

That Glagsow Witch (27:57.309)
See, that’s a beautiful thing, isn’t it?

Rhonda (27:59.949)
Yeah, or like, we know, well we live in the Angus Glens where there’s a lot of, we have to cull the deer because if we don’t then they overrun and they starve. Exactly.

That Glagsow Witch (28:06.722)
Yeah, there’s no rooms left. know. The rear culling thing is something that I have absolutely went, I’ve done a full 180 on that thought because I didn’t realise that if we don’t do that, you’ve got all these elderly deer with no teeth because they can’t eat and then they starve to death. And I didn’t quite. It’s horrible. So I’ve done a full 180 on that. I now understand why that happens, because before I’d have been like, I’d tied myself to trees.

Rhonda (28:15.648)
Yeah

Rhonda (28:23.884)
That’s awful.

Rhonda (28:34.188)
Yeah well something I think sometimes people think that I go out like so that rattle that I showed you is a ram’s horn and obviously like the ram has to die for you to get the horns so don’t fall off but people seem to think that I go around shooting rams in the head just to get their horns but it’s never that for us anyway and I doubt it’s that for anybody else it’s not worth it and I think the farmers might be a bit annoyed if you start shooting their sheep for the horns but it’s like what for us or for me is very much landed in that space of like what I am connecting with the spirit of the animal.

That Glagsow Witch (28:40.421)
you

That Glagsow Witch (28:48.976)
I know.

That Glagsow Witch (28:54.297)
See you.

That Glagsow Witch (29:03.9)
Thank

Rhonda (29:04.03)
and we are in reverence and for us what we’ve found is that if people end up with one of these sacred objects then their connection to the animal and to the land and to the natural world gets stronger because they have this like tactile physical connection it’s really lovely yeah like these guys up here there’s a deer and a sheep well I found these on different walks and stuff so it’s like in

That Glagsow Witch (29:16.4)
Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (29:19.909)
Yeah.

I don’t know. I’ll go back to the page. Yeah, I see that.

That Glagsow Witch (29:31.229)
I’d be all over that. I’d be all over that. I found something on a walk. In fact, my husband was opening up an old fireplace in our house, 120 odd years old, and he was like, there’s a crow skull in here. Do you want it? And I was like, yes. So I don’t know all of that stuff. good. But I know that it’s lovely. yeah, I’m on a journey with that just now.

Rhonda (29:33.462)
You’re right.

Rhonda (29:50.867)
yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (30:00.079)
It’s animal exploitation is where my issue is. that’s not what a lot of this is. Sorry, what was the question? I’ve gone on a ramble.

Rhonda (30:03.502)
mine too. Yeah, which I’m not okay with. Yeah. So… I don’t even know! This is why we’re here, Jill, just to have a blether. I cannae mind what we were even talking about. No, we talking about social media and then I asked you what your husband’s name was and you said Stu and then we went down that route. And then I was like, look what my husband makes! And then that took us onto vegans. Yeah, yeah, So let’s pick a new topic!

That Glagsow Witch (30:21.642)
yes.

You wish your husband would make it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got you, got you. Sorry.

Rhonda (30:31.082)
No, I do, I love that and it’s good to be able to talk about the animal reverence part when you work with the land and especially in shamanism where you’re more likely to work with animals in the way that we do. I think, I’m not actually that clear on a lot of the similarities with animal practices and the way that we might have a seinen fan or… So yeah, for me it’s always like a good conversation to have to…

That Glagsow Witch (30:42.556)
Yeah.

Rhonda (30:59.174)
remove some of the misconceptions like so for me my line is that animal exploitation is a no but also I don’t like using plastic which is what the vegan drums are as well so I’m like although I do have one or two from before I’m like you could really tie yourself up and not

That Glagsow Witch (31:08.504)
Yeah, I know, I know. I know. Well, this is the journey that I’m on, you know, this is the journey and like, it’s like all plastic comes from the oil and gas industry. know, very, exactly. So it’s a journey. really is trying to do the right thing for the right reason at the right time. it’s, yeah.

It’s hard.

Rhonda (31:39.245)
Here, do you know, I saw, I know it’s so hard, I saw one of your videos the other day. You were talking about the rule of three and that you don’t work with it and why you don’t work with it. But, two things. Firstly, I don’t know what the rule of three is and I was curious because three’s obviously a sacred number in Celtic mythology, so I worked with the three cauldrons and the three this and the three that and I love threes. So didn’t know you guys on your side had the rule of three, but I don’t like rules either, so I was like, ooh.

That Glagsow Witch (31:48.506)
Mm-hmm.

Rhonda (32:08.81)
like what is it and why don’t you use it and then also I thought we could get onto like the idea of like learning the difference between being method based it has to be this way versus personal gnosis personal truth like taking what feels good and right and then working with that so

That Glagsow Witch (32:08.924)
What is it?

That Glagsow Witch (32:19.885)
You

That Glagsow Witch (32:28.314)
Yeah, so the rule of three is this, I’m sure it’s a Wiccan belief. Now, I don’t, Wicca is one of these things talking about closed practices. Wicca is a closed practice. You have to be initiated into that practice. So there’s lots of books on Wicca. I know. So there’s lots of books on Wicca and you can read about it and you can say that you’re Wiccan, but actually, Gardinerian Wiccans are, or any other, there’s,

initiation ceremonies. So I’m sure there’s lots of Wiccans out there that get really peeved that people are using their rules, I suppose. And I think the rule of three came from a Wiccan rule, which is basically whatever you put out into the world, good, bad or indifferent, will come back to you times three. So it’s like the Wiccan rule of karma-ish, if that’s what karma was.

But it’s not, I don’t subscribe to that at all. think that if you’re, I think that if you, I don’t think that, I still think that your actions, there’ll be a reaction to whatever action that you put out. But.

Rhonda (33:42.902)
Well karma means action.

That Glagsow Witch (33:45.679)
Yeah, so the thing I love about my, first ever story I get told from a Buddhist monastic about what karma meant to them was that I was on a retreat for a few days and I expressed on more than one occasion that I felt guilty that I was there and not at home with my daughter who was about four or five at the time. And he told us a story about how this woman lived her life and

gave everything to her family, made sure her sons had everything they needed, did it all the time. She was a beautiful artist, but she gave everything up and she did that for them and made sure everyone had everything they needed. And she was doing good for her family and good for her husband and good for her community and good for everyone else because she wanted to build karma. And then when she was coming, when she passed and she was coming back to life, then she had karma to, she’d built up.

bad karma for her. I hate the word good and bad, but she’d built up karma for her that wasn’t good karma because she had neglected herself in that life. And there’s nothing moral about that. There’s no morality to say, you’ve been a good person, but if you’ve been a good person at the expense of yourself or the expense of other people, then you’re…

Rhonda (34:53.152)
Love that.

Mm-mm.

Rhonda (35:05.14)
expense of yourself.

Rhonda (35:09.302)
Mm.

That Glagsow Witch (35:10.992)
then you need, that’s karma and you have to come back and relearn that to learn that action to understand it. when people equate the rule of three, which is this morally based, whatever you put out, you get back, think to karma that irks me a little bit. But also I don’t believe in the rule of three because I feel like it’s a, I think that if you want to, what do call it? Hexes.

I will call it justice work. I think if you want to do justice work for someone who’s doing something wrong in life, then you can. Because if someone in the physical real world had their boot on my neck, I will fight that person with every ounce of my being to get free from that. That doesn’t mean that I’m just going to fight random people in the street. It’s as a response to that thing happening. So if you want to pick someone.

or put them in a freezer jar spell or do you know you use baneful magic then if you’re justified in that then carry on and I don’t think that that’s going to come back three times to you that’s not that’s not you’re you’re responding as a as an action of that person’s actions so you that’s a there’s a there’ll be a constant you know backwards and forwards reaction but yeah the rule so the rule of three would be if you

did something really nice for someone, three really nice things would happen to you. If you did something bad to someone, three really bad things would happen to you. And I’m not up for that. That feels like dogma that I don’t need to.

Rhonda (36:49.536)
Yeah.

It does, doesn’t it? It feels a little on the thin side, philosophically.

That Glagsow Witch (36:57.028)
So I’m not Wiccan, so that’s not a rule that I have to follow as part of my religion. But I also don’t think that that’s… Yeah, it’s kinda like that in the Christian religion they have sins. And I don’t have that either. No. I don’t have that either.

Rhonda (37:01.771)
Mm-hmm.

Rhonda (37:12.779)
Which I also don’t like. It’s a bit silly. Yeah, like the whole Catholic idea of like purgatory just really, when I figured that out I thought, how sad is that? It’s so sad, actually had grief around that. like my, I don’t have.

That Glagsow Witch (37:24.538)
Yeah, it is really sad. That’s turned, that’s what the idea of purgatory is what turned my mum away from Catholicism. she still holds on to all the guilt of it, but it’s a, I know.

Rhonda (37:32.331)
Yeah, Oh, that’s as you… I know, and that’s the other thing about Catholic and Protestant guilt, like just Christian guilt. It’s like, imagine living your whole life.

That Glagsow Witch (37:41.199)
Yeah, Christian, Christian girl. I think there’s guilt in lots of religions and think that’s the thing I like about witchcraft is that it gives me a connection to the divine. Again, people don’t like using that word because they think that you’re talking about, I love the divine. I’ve said that a few times, me too. I love all of it. it’s just language.

Rhonda (37:47.776)
Yeah.

Rhonda (37:54.461)
I love it, I love divine. I love the word God as well.

But yeah, it’s the it’s the label, it doesn’t matter, it’s the soul that counts, right?

That Glagsow Witch (38:05.068)
Yeah, totally. It’s like, you you could have a thousand different recipes for soup, but Minestonia is not the same as Cull and Skink, but they’re both soup. know, so, but yeah, I do. I think that having something that gives you a connection to the divine without the rules and regulations of your going to eternal damnation, if you don’t believe this, it’s quite freeing.

Rhonda (38:14.059)
Exactly.

Rhonda (38:27.231)
And what’s really funny, don’t you think, as well, is that just in our culture we have this like, even if we’re not, because my family weren’t religious either, spiritual definitely, but not religious necessarily, but what I see everywhere, now especially with the decline in Christianity, is that the dogma still resides nonetheless in quiet places like the guilt and the rule based and the, if you do bad things then you’re a bad person.

It just like the really worst of Christianity seems to, and seems to have stuck around quietly somehow, I don’t know.

That Glagsow Witch (38:59.932)
I made a video a few weeks ago about that whole negative and positive energy chat and the general consensus that I have about that is that negative and positive energy is a term that is related to physics and the presence or absence of a positive charge. It’s got nothing to it’s just energy. The energy that we all

Rhonda (39:26.388)
Energy, yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (39:29.776)
have the ability to clock in to merely exists. There’s no moral pile that you have to put it in. It’s just whatever, wherever you’re directing that. That’s the so I don’t ever get upset about when someone said, there’s bad energy there. I’m like, there’s energy there that doesn’t suit the environment. You know, this maybe it’s not that it’s bad. Yeah, or yeah, well, if you yeah, exactly. But so that’s not that it’s bad energy. It’s just that it’s energy that’s not for

Rhonda (39:49.653)
Yeah, or that doesn’t suit you.

That Glagsow Witch (39:59.771)
this place or it’s not for the purpose. It’s not it’s not fit for purpose energy. There’s other energy around. You you can work with that how you like. that’s I do quite like that. But the good and the bad and the negative and the positive, I try not to get too hooked up on that. I’m doing what I’m doing.

Rhonda (40:01.004)
Mm.

Rhonda (40:09.471)
Hmm.

Rhonda (40:20.199)
kind of like also like it’s quite binary as well so it like splits things into like must be this or that where actually like that’s not really how it works like there’s two sides to every coin there’s different sides to every story you know there’s like there’s so much nuance and it’s intertwined like just there’s so much going on that to like break it down into something so basic it’s really reductionist and don’t think we really connect with the truth that way either like two things can be true simultaneously.

That Glagsow Witch (40:30.95)
Great.

That Glagsow Witch (40:34.979)
Heaps of it.

That Glagsow Witch (40:43.652)
Absolutely.

No, there’s so many people message me online and say things like, that was a really nice spell, could I do it with a white candle or could I do it with two pieces of string or could I? And I’m like, you can do whatever you want to do. It’s your practice. That’s how I did it. If you want to do it, just do it whatever way you want to do it. It’s the connection that you’re trying to get.

Not that in any book that you’ve ever read, unless it’s a historical textbook about, you know, it’s some academic something or other, even then sometimes.

Rhonda (41:23.819)
spirituality evolves. Like if you think about, I like to talk about second sight right, so second sight’s a thing. My parents were both spiritual mediums and I think that second sight potentially naturally evolved into that along certain threads, like not entirely obviously it’s gone other places too but that was one of the threads that ended up in that space and I mean I was baptized in a spiritualist church like my parents were both like mediums, we readery people.

That Glagsow Witch (41:26.884)
Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (41:50.545)
Yeah.

Rhonda (41:53.172)
And I struggled with it for a long time. I had a big dance with it because I saw how negative it was. I saw how people got sucked in and addicted. And I was like, what’s the point of this? There doesn’t seem to be any outcome. Like there doesn’t seem to be any actual like good that comes out of this. And also people often get it wrong or they’re not confident or you can see that they’re like…

the characters who like super ego characters who are just like playing the room and I’m like eight being like, is this, what the fuck am I looking at here?

That Glagsow Witch (42:22.204)
Yeah, but you get this, you get that in every single nugget of life, you know, that’s you get a little bit more.

Rhonda (42:30.187)
Exactly. But then I’m like in the vein of like spirituality evolving, second sight, you read anything about second sight, it’s always interestingly it’s either on, remember, death, marriages and money, I think. It’s like very, very, very narrow focus of what they were really interested in apart from maybe like the Brahans here who did prophecy, which is a slightly different thing, and it was a curse.

That Glagsow Witch (42:51.835)
Yeah.

Rhonda (42:58.601)
it was seen as a curse. And I’m like, ooh. And then I got all excited because I was like, well, probably it wasn’t like that before and it’s probably got that way because of Christianity and how Christianity had like a stranglehold over Scotland at that time. So of course it would be seen as a curse because who would want to admit that they have stepped out of like the Christian, like narrow lines to, you know, connect with spirit in another way.

That Glagsow Witch (43:07.561)
Thank

That Glagsow Witch (43:19.484)
Well, and if you did, that was one of the things that got you ticked the box to say, you know, which let’s let’s dangle you now and burn you somewhere. And so that’s

Rhonda (43:26.859)
You’re a witch.

Yeah, exactly. So I got really excited about that and I was like, ooh, developing this idea of second sight and I use the word seership actually as opposed to second sight but developing that skill which is something that I love and I’m good at and like have always been able to do is really exciting to me. It’s almost like full circle. I wonder what it was like pre all of that fucking mess but also

That Glagsow Witch (43:50.833)
Yeah.

Rhonda (43:52.736)
what’s it going to be like in the future? Like how can we develop it and take it forward for our culture instead of being dogmatic and stuck in what should be in the past? And also you mentioned closed practice which is one of my bugbears and I feel like I’ve been screaming into the void and I felt quite alone on the subject actually in Scotland because I have never felt that practice, the practices that I have learned have been closed. There’s no…

For me, I love the way you talk about it, but I used to say, you know, to me the sense I made of it was like, there’s no, no elders, there’s nobody who gets to decide if it’s closed, it’s a fairly broken lineage, like, you know, piecing things together, like how can it… And anyway, and anyway, if somebody loves it and wants to connect with it, why are you so bothered? So, I’ll stop because I’m not getting a rant, I’m already in a rant, but like, what? But you’ve talked about that, so what’s your like view on it and how?

That Glagsow Witch (44:48.838)
Okay.

Rhonda (44:49.397)
How did you come to that conclusion yourself?

That Glagsow Witch (44:51.26)
So I’m really globally, I’m really aware that there’s closed practices and the reason behind there being closed practices, because when you look, when you look at things like who do and who do, example, those were people who were stolen from their land, carted halfway across the world, and they’re trying to maintain a lineage to somewhere that’s spiritually and significantly everything important to them. So I don’t think that it’s

Rhonda (45:00.287)
See you.

That Glagsow Witch (45:21.392)
I think that it’s OK to learn about that stuff, but maybe not. I’ve got books that have got information about hoodoo and voodoo in them and I’ll read them. But I’m not going to run a workshop on hoodoo and voodoo practices. That’s not mine. I don’t get to talk about that. Similarly with things like Native American culture as well. There are certain practices within Native American culture that

they do in their own culture after they’ve gone through a coming-of-age ceremony or, you know, and again, that’s not for me and I don’t need to be there. I’d like to learn about it and understand what it is. But I don’t need to burn white sage in order to do that. within Scottish culture, I think the reason that when I started posting about Saining and I did get a few people come to me and say, I heard that’s a closed practice.

That Glagsow Witch (46:22.648)
I had conversation with them about it because I understand why they were saying it because we are a colonized land like these other places are. The difference being is that our colonization happened 2000 years ago, not 500 years ago. So there is no absolutely unbroken tapestry back to

Rhonda (46:34.591)
Mm-hmm.

That Glagsow Witch (46:48.94)
Iron Age Scots, there isn’t, it doesn’t exist. There is a tentative thread that comes through it and there’s loads of Christian language been sewn into it. So the fact that the language has changed from what it would have been then and it now has Christian annotations to it means that is it. That means it’s not closed because it was changed. And we are allowed to in 2025 change that language again and make it be something that

that is appropriate for us now. So you can’t possibly close something that’s already changed because you’re closing it past the point and then at that point you’re maintaining a cultural practice that is not a living practice. The first comment that I had on that video about saining, the first point I’m going to make about saining is this much of it is about smoke. Right.

Rhonda (47:26.731)
Hmm.

Rhonda (47:44.756)
yeah, totally. Hello!

That Glagsow Witch (47:46.717)
with like that much of smoke. And I made a video about a smoke scene for New Year because historically that’s when we would have done that. And the first thing I got was, well, actually, did you know that that’s not actually what saining is? And I was like, oh, well, actually 20 odd years of me doing it and my mum used to do it and my granny does it like.

Rhonda (48:09.291)
Bye, S.

That Glagsow Witch (48:15.772)
They were like, need to use Juniper and you have to smoke your entire house out. And I’m like, you’re reading texts, textbooks that spoke about that, that practice when we lived in houses with a hole in the ceiling and that was our chimney. And they were literally smoking out the entire room and they used Juniper to do that because it was abundant in the area that they lived. And the book said, don’t cut it with iron.

uproot the whole plant. Right, that was what

Rhonda (48:48.203)
Well I like my junior plan, I don’t really want to uproot our plans very much.

That Glagsow Witch (48:51.94)
I was like, fuck root the plant, burn it and smoke your whole house out. That might have been appropriate 2000 years ago. That is not appropriate now. And if I can use other plants that I’ve developed a relationship with and I have a close plant ally ship with, then I’ll use those over juniper because juniper is now almost on the endangered list in Scotland. is 99 % of the juniper that was around back then is no longer exists.

So we shouldn’t be using it in massive, you know, huge rants and waffling around our house. Anyway, so I had that conversation, I pointed them to lots and lots of online resources about people who have been talking about it for decades, for, since the 1800s, since, and said, you know, this is this is a saying right and a saying prayer, and it says Jesus’ name in it.

Rhonda (49:28.221)
this.

That Glagsow Witch (49:51.429)
and Mary’s name in it and Michael’s name in it. So that cannot be closed because that’s Christian. There are gods that are long forgotten. The names would have been there now. that was my introduction into TikTok was that trying to explain to people what Satan was and then it all came.

Rhonda (50:02.408)
Long gone. Yeah.

Rhonda (50:16.319)
Me, me, me, me, Yeah, I mean, it’s fascinating. And the conversation around like close practice is really interesting. So I’m going to circle back to a couple of things you said, because, just get your thoughts on it. the, you know, native cultural practice, I have many friends. I choose not to practice Native American things. don’t even like.

rituals and ceremonies because it didn’t call to me, like it didn’t excite me. Even during my training, you know, my teacher was great, she would bring in things from like all over the world and I was like oh this is interesting, great, yeah but not really. But anyway I do have friends who have spent in one case over a decade training with native people who want to share their lineage and they want to share the practices and they do, they teach the white man if you like.

That Glagsow Witch (50:52.944)
Yeah.

Rhonda (51:11.689)
and then they bring it back, in this case to England, they all live in England for some reason, and then they teach it and they get a lot of flak for it, but I’m like, well.

Rhonda (51:24.253)
just try and stay out of a conversation that doesn’t have anything to do with me is what I try and do because I’m like I hear that I hear that there are I know deeply that there are real issues with cultural cultural appropriation and like you were saying like you would read a voodoo book and then go off and profit from it by doing a workshop potentially problematic if all you’ve done is read some books but then if someone’s apprenticed what and this is the thing about Celtic culture as well right

So some people are really, really drawn to Celtic culture, but they’re like, I don’t have any DNA, I don’t have any history. And I’m like, well, how do you know your ancestor didn’t travel? An apprentice with somebody from Celtic lands. You don’t know that. Like, you don’t know why you’re so drawn to that practice that it’s almost like in your bones. I get people coming to me, begging me to be allowed to practice. And I’m like, if you want to, if you love it, and if you’re going to be mindful and right relationship.

That Glagsow Witch (52:01.102)
Yay.

That Glagsow Witch (52:12.89)
Yeah, it’s not for sale.

Rhonda (52:19.304)
with, in my case I use guides, you guys I think are more like familiars, I don’t know if you do that, but in right relationship with your guides, in right relationship with the land, then great, the native people I talk to are delighted that people are finally starting to learn how to love the land and then the other thing I was going to say was I got an email from a native owned company who said please stop talking about not using white sage because we grow it and sell it and our

sales are dropping because people have stopped buying it and we don’t know what to do and I’m like I don’t think I can touch that I don’t know how to even like approach look at the I couldn’t be any more area and if I tried I don’t really think that me talking about your white sage is going to be a good idea but if I can help you but it’s like things like that so it’s like such a nuanced conversation that I find it quite tricky to land

That Glagsow Witch (52:51.504)
Okay.

I know.

That Glagsow Witch (53:02.812)
And that’s not a for you, yeah. Yeah, that’s not a deal for me.

Well, that is it. think that it is tricky, but I think the thing is that like, like white sage grows in a very specific place in the world. And as a Scottish woman who practices Celtic practices, I’ve got no business touching it. don’t. So, yeah, and I don’t, but.

Rhonda (53:22.686)
and toss.

Rhonda (53:31.918)
I I agree with that, I don’t have, yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (53:39.645)
I’ve been approached by a few metaphysical shops in the UK who have been like, could you punt some of our stuff forward? And I don’t do that generally. I’ve been sent a couple of things actually recently that I’m going to speak about because they’re really good. But I don’t do that generally. I don’t do that all. I send me stuff and all. That’s not part of who I am as a person. And I go back to them and say, I will, but you’re plants that you’ve literally pushed around the world.

to here and we’ve got loads of native plants from the UK that people should be buying and growing or using themselves. It would be better if you sold that because if you don’t see it and you don’t know that that’s what you’re supposed to we’ve got no elders then you’re looking for spirituality outside of your own wheelhouse and you start to go externally to do that.

Rhonda (54:28.362)
Mm-hmm.

That Glagsow Witch (54:35.228)
I had a really lovely conversation with someone who is in our community online, who is from New Zealand and they’re Māori, but has a Scottish grandparent. And we had the conversation about why do people in the West, as she called us in Europe, seek spirituality in things like yoga, for example. And I said, because it’s available.

There is not like there’s way we all want access to the divine. We all want access to feel that power inside ourselves. And those things are available to us. The people, there’s lots of people who study yoga, who then go on to study more in depth parts of the practice and or study Buddhism or study, you know, but but that’s because it’s available. It’s it’s in front of their face to do it. There’s yoga classes in every.

Rhonda (55:06.598)
It’s visual, it’s there.

Rhonda (55:12.138)
Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (55:34.151)
town hall in Glasgow but you know is there Celtic traditional you know drum making classes in those places? So we’re all seeking the connection to spirit and we’ll accept it on however it presents itself to us and I think the thing with White’s age is and things like Paulo Santo as well that

Rhonda (55:42.282)
Hmm.

That Glagsow Witch (56:04.238)
they’ve they’ve been brought in to fill a hole in a spiritual requirement that didn’t need that hole filled with that stuff. You know that we have we’ve got our own thing to do and we’ve and I think we’re in that kind of borderline point where we’re trying to

educate people on what they could be using and what they can be growing and working with on their own and what’s available to them. And even if you live in Glasgow, there’s a juniper bush about half a mile from my house. I know that there’s these things, that is the connectedness to the land. When you buy a bundle of something from anywhere, a bundle of anything, even a bundle of you walk into a shop and buy a bundle of juniper, you’ve got no connection to that. You didn’t cut it.

Rhonda (56:51.952)
No, you’re right. Absolutely.

That Glagsow Witch (56:53.744)
Right, it’s less about being concerned about even people’s sales dropping and more about go out into land stock, commodifying it in a way that is just adding to spending money on stuff and taking your connection to the way it came from away rather than actually

going out and or growing the thing in your own space and watching it be a seed, be a sapling, the thing talk to it every day, do all the stuff to it so when I speak about things like White Sage Pile of Santo and Juniper bundles as well and lavender bundles or whatever bundles you want to buy it’s when you hand over cash for that for someone who’s pre-wrapped that for you in a little plastic baggy

you’ve removed yourself from where it came from. You’ve removed, you’ve commodified something that deserves a divine connection. And that’s probably my biggest issue.

Rhonda (58:00.553)
Hmm. So that’s, I know I love that, that’s a really lovely explanation. And there’s two things she said there that really jumped out. One of them was about visibility and making things more visible. The more visible they are, the more likely people are to connect with them, which I think is partly what you and I do, although we have different labels. And I guess in a way that like, because one of the things that I used to get grief for was

because people thought I had bought the herbs. Now turned out my sister’s a herbalist and we, she has a garden and we gather things together and they do look very well made because that’s what we do. Like, do you know what I mean? But they were, I know, but it was really, it was interesting. But anyway, the point is it got me onto this like thought process about how I find my way here. So I love what you’re saying about like educating people to get to the point where perhaps they can.

That Glagsow Witch (58:38.65)
You do it, yeah. But then they’re going to look well made if you do it yourself.

Rhonda (58:57.706)
gather and grow but when people, I’ve got a point, a minute, it’s running around my head. So when people don’t know, they can’t do. So I love the conversation around white sage and pillow santo and other herbs that aren’t grown in this country and people are like, great, right, well I’m gonna start buying whatever, juniper and mugwort instead, great. And I’m like, great, yes.

step movement, you know, it’s really, it’s a really important like progression. And then if you get to the point where, because like one of the things I never want or I try not to do when I create content is to make people feel bad for their choices. So, and like, I’m like, you know, if it’s a, if it’s a choice between like,

That Glagsow Witch (59:28.092)
Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (59:39.898)
Yeah.

Rhonda (59:48.027)
this herb, not from the country, in this herb lane bash on but if you can grow it or you do have time or space or privileged enough, you’re privileged enough to be able to get out into your landscape please do. I mean even grass will burn if you dry it.

That Glagsow Witch (59:51.398)
Yay.

That Glagsow Witch (01:00:03.356)
I will. But then, so that so when I’m speaking about growing it and buying it and doing it all yourself, I really appreciate that there are people out there who just can’t do it. One, they physically can’t do it nor they can’t, they don’t have the capacity to do it. So if you’re buying a bundle of juniper that was grown in the UK, then that’s just a step, that’s bringing that commodification that’s out there, a step.

Rhonda (01:00:17.162)
Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (01:00:33.454)
smaller and bringing it back closer to where you are. So it’s not, I’m not saying people don’t buy herbs. there’s some things I like to work with that I can’t, that are native to the UK that I can’t grow. I live in a tenement flat in Glasgow. Like, so I’d love to, I too. And like, there’s things I just can’t grow and I’ll buy them. But I buy them from places where I know that

Rhonda (01:00:36.298)
Hmm.

That Glagsow Witch (01:01:00.774)
like you do a bit of due diligence and you understand that that’s been from, like I’m not buying my herbs off Amazon. I’m going to a herbalist shop that’s a mile from, yeah, somewhere that’s close to my front door that I can say to them, do you know the growers of this stuff? And then you’re then putting your money back into our space rather than buying white sage from a place that grows literally like,

Rhonda (01:01:02.804)
Hmm.

Rhonda (01:01:10.174)
make small businesses and yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (01:01:28.86)
7,000 miles away from where we live to send it here. And people keep saying, someone brought me white sage as a gift, should I use it? Do like? It’s a gift someone’s brought you or you’ve been given it by a native friend and they’ve said here, we’d like you to have that, then that’s a beautiful gift that someone’s given you. But there’s a very big difference between that and a container load of it getting shipped across the sea.

Rhonda (01:01:29.45)
Thousands, yes.

That Glagsow Witch (01:01:57.149)
It’s just about trying to just be mindful of where your products are coming from. Yeah, absolutely, your footprint. Trying to close that commodification gap a little bit. Sometimes you have to buy things and pay for it and it is a commodity at that point. But you know that if you bought it from someone who is a…

Rhonda (01:02:01.237)
Hmm. Your footprint, Yeah.

Rhonda (01:02:12.233)
Yeah.

Rhonda (01:02:22.676)
Who gives a shit?

That Glagsow Witch (01:02:23.92)
who gives a shit that it’s good, you know?

Rhonda (01:02:26.89)
You

That Glagsow Witch (01:02:28.88)
Yeah, it’s a big, big subject. I could talk about that for hours and hours and hours.

Rhonda (01:02:33.022)
I know, I love it as well and I like to try and like…

As a past, I used to be like really narrow minded. Like I grew up in Methil in the 90s. There’s not much going on there philosophically wise. No offence to my fellow Methil, leave-in-mouth friends and family. it was definitely like…

That Glagsow Witch (01:02:45.868)
Thanks.

That Glagsow Witch (01:02:50.299)
Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (01:02:56.006)
but even if they’re worse, nobody’s talking about it.

Rhonda (01:03:00.106)
Yeah, exactly. I mean, my parents were definitely the weirdos, but um, the… I forgot what I was even gonna say. But yeah, so becoming like, aware of issues. Yeah, that’s what I was gonna say. So it’s like, try to bring in all sides. And I really enjoyed this conversation because you’ve given me some things, like you’ve, you’ve, you’ve given me a different language. Because we have, I’ve noticed the way we explain things is different, right? You’ve got like a, a different…

That Glagsow Witch (01:03:25.617)
Okay.

Rhonda (01:03:30.024)
lovely angle that I know but it’s like it’s almost bringing in a different type of magic when it comes in from this slightly different words are like magic right so brilliant.

That Glagsow Witch (01:03:38.62)
perspective, if there’s anything magic then change your perspective here.

Rhonda (01:03:44.413)
Yeah and then so there’s a sense that I have around like trying to have conversations like this, bringing in lots of different perspectives because it’s not a black and it’s not necessarily black and white. Well it’s not black and white, there are like so many different things that people worry about or think about or need to like connect with and and if anything about the way that you teach that I can see so far it’s all it’s and myself as well.

It’s about finding your own way without guilt and shame and like that thing we talking about earlier about that like leftover Christian fucking nonsense that overlays so much of what we do when we’re not mindful of it. like spirituality is that we live in a really, right I’m gonna change the subject, so we live in this like really beautiful time where we are deeply privileged to be able to choose what we connect with spiritually and that’s a rare fucking time to live in.

That Glagsow Witch (01:04:20.081)
Okay.

Thank

Rhonda (01:04:42.954)
Like can you imagine 100 years ago, 50 years ago even in Scotland, you couldn’t choose what you did without risk of being either actually executed or certainly excommunicated from your tribe, jailed. And I feel like one of the things that I would like to encourage people to do is to be like, oh wow, I can. I can be mindful of issues.

That Glagsow Witch (01:04:54.704)
Gilled. Yeah. Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (01:05:07.089)
Mm-hmm.

Rhonda (01:05:11.454)
But I can also take what resonates and leave what doesn’t. Like, you’re allowed to do that now in a way that’s never been allowed to do, especially as women, actually. Especially as women, in the history of fucking mankind in the last 2,000 years just about. So I’m like, be creative, like try things. If it’s not saining to your soul, gently put it to the side. Like, just go follow the threads that fill your heart and fill your soul.

That Glagsow Witch (01:05:21.818)
Yeah, especially here.

That Glagsow Witch (01:05:37.019)
Yeah.

Rhonda (01:05:41.65)
and be mindful of global.

That Glagsow Witch (01:05:43.867)
Yeah, I think most of the things that I do when I talk about being mindful of stuff, think this is where my veganism’s probably taught me lots over the outside of what I choose to do from an animal perspective. Whether I’m, whether I am

Rhonda (01:05:46.216)
issues but still like don’t let it swamp you.

That Glagsow Witch (01:06:13.222)
Buying shopping, I was about say buying messages, but I don’t know if that’s going to translate well. If I’m buying groceries, if I’m buying my shopping or picking clothes to wear or purchasing a car or anything that I’m expending my money or energy on. The thought process I have in my head first, the first filter that it comes through is

Rhonda (01:06:18.632)
Messages.

That Glagsow Witch (01:06:41.732)
Is there a way to reduce the exploitation here? Because people are exploited and every, it doesn’t matter what it is that’s happening, there’s exploitation happens across all of it. And if there’s something that I can do to reduce the level of exploitation that happens, then I will start going down that path and figure out if it is or isn’t. And I do that with my practice as well.

working and if I’m reading about a book that I’ve got and it’s talking about a different type of style of practice that I’ve got, then I look at that and not to poke holes in people, to make sure that that fits me as a person, what ways can I reduce any exploitation that shows up there? So if something calls for a beeswax candle, for example.

Rhonda (01:07:31.7)
Hmm.

That Glagsow Witch (01:07:40.889)
I know that that’s vegan, but I don’t use that because I’ve got an option of using something else. people, if I use a soy candle, people will argue that soy candle, there’s exploitation in soy, but it’s what my head sees as being the least exploitative thing that I can do. I think if you can do something, if you can do that in your life with the

you’re starting things with idea that you’re trying to do as least harm as you can possibly do and the least amount of exploitation that you can have then.

do what you will after that point, you know, but just do what you will.

Rhonda (01:08:20.691)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And I couldn’t agree with that more and what’s, what, I’ve touched on the veganism thing a couple of times here but…

Just because I love it and I love how different people can come to different conclusions whilst holding very similar intentions but for me what that looks like is like we find our, because I’m not a bit more mum as a vegan and has been since I was really young so I’ve always been aware of it but for me I decided that we source our meat locally, we source our meat through local hunters and we know where everything comes from and that’s what we do.

So anything we buy and eat, or we try to, obviously it’s not always possible depending on what our fussy four year old wants to eat, but for the most part we’re like local, how far has it travelled, you know, the exploitation thing, and that’s where we landed with it. But that doesn’t make me right and you wrong. That’s just not that, exactly, but I think people get into that like good or bad sphere, right?

That Glagsow Witch (01:09:23.58)
I

That Glagsow Witch (01:09:27.228)
It makes you right for you and it makes me right for me. If you and I switched, if we did that whole Freaky Friday thing and switched lives then you being in my life, that still wouldn’t be right for you because everything that has made you the person you are, that’s the choices that you’ve made and everything that’s made me the person that I am is the choices that I’ve made.

Rhonda (01:09:32.08)
It doesn’t even work, does it?

Mm-hmm. Exactly.

That Glagsow Witch (01:09:56.249)
equally see that as, you know, and I know some really militant vegans and I join them sometimes but because I can absolutely see the argument of I was vegan, my daughter’s also vegan, I was vegan, I’m not trying to score points, I was vegan first but I did that for myself. What I mean by that is that she didn’t become vegan and then I did it, you know, I was already vegan as I’m happening in our house.

Rhonda (01:10:03.059)
Me too.

That Glagsow Witch (01:10:25.956)
And she, and I wasn’t pushing that on her, like I’m not pushing my craft on her either. She can do this or not. And she asked if she could be vegan. And I said, well, the choice, said to her, well, you can, but you’re only ever going to have two choices for your dinner. And it’s going to be take it or leave it. And she said, right, okay. So, so because I know that the food I’m putting down to her is,

Whole foods that don’t cost an awful lot of money to prepare but you know she’s gonna get bored of lentils and you know all of that stuff pretty quickly and if she starts moaning about it then you know that’s what you’re doing but god I’m away with my point again.

Rhonda (01:10:53.779)
Hmm.

That Glagsow Witch (01:11:12.388)
Nah, it’s gone. I was making a point there and it’s gone out of my head. That’s what happened. Yeah, that’s that peri- I know, that’s that perimenopause. Happening. Things are leaving. I just accept what- when that happens I’m just like, well I’m not supposed to talk about that.

Rhonda (01:11:15.217)
I hate when that happens. We’ve done well, we’ve done well, Geo.

I know it’s annoying exactly. Or maybe you’ll do a…

Rhonda (01:11:29.223)
Maybe you’ll do a Billy Connelly and get but a cuttle come back round, I dunno.

That Glagsow Witch (01:11:32.316)
Come back it again. I know. I know. Wild.

Rhonda (01:11:35.892)
But no, I think that what the general feeling of this part of the conversation is like, try and just do what’s right for you. Like try and just do what’s best, what you feel is right. There’s eight billion whatever people on the planet. Like there’s plenty of people who are gonna try and tell you what to do, who you should be, how you should think, what you should focus on. Like, you only get one shot, you get one goal.

That Glagsow Witch (01:11:50.161)
Yeah.

That Glagsow Witch (01:11:54.289)
Okay.

That Glagsow Witch (01:12:00.54)
Just exist in your life without intentionally trying to harm others and when you know others are being harmed, try and reduce that harm as much as you can. I don’t have any others this month, that’s the rule.

Rhonda (01:12:13.297)
Yeah, easy. And just like live around that. Exactly, exactly. And just live around that and try and leave the girl at the door because it doesn’t do any use. Tio, thank you. This has been fabulous. I’ve a lovely chat. Where can people find you?

That Glagsow Witch (01:12:21.136)
Yeah.

You’re welcome.

I But then okay, that’s a good an hour. Yeah, that’s not so bad,

Rhonda (01:12:33.159)
Yeah, where can people find you?

That Glagsow Witch (01:12:35.366)
they can find me on Instagram and TikTok are the only two places that I post regularly. There’s not, there isn’t a difference between the two of the things. It’s just churn one out on one and it goes straight onto the other. I’ve got a…

Rhonda (01:12:52.721)
and your handle is at that Glasgow Witch.

That Glagsow Witch (01:12:55.772)
Yes, that Glasgow witch. I think there are quite a few imposter accounts who all block me so I can’t see them. So on TikTok I think I’ve got like 130,000 or something on TikTok and on Instagram 230,000. So if there’s any less than that then it’s some scammer trying to tell you. The other thing is I don’t do readings. So if anyone ever messages you and says, I’ve got a reading for you, that’s not me.

Rhonda (01:13:02.931)
Same as me.

Rhonda (01:13:17.245)
Yep, it’s not you.

Rhonda (01:13:24.365)
Aye, me too, I don’t do anything to see that. So annoying, that’s been happening for like four fucking years, people like, there must be hundreds of accounts and people email me and they’re like, I’ve been scammed and I’m like, I’m so sorry.

That Glagsow Witch (01:13:25.774)
Am I not too near-readin’?

What is wrong with you?

That Glagsow Witch (01:13:36.733)
I know it’s what it’s it’s like I feel as if people have got a you know a bit more wily now to understand that that’s what happens in that space. But yeah that really that really rips my knitting when that happens. I do anything at all. I’ve got on my my profile page on TikTok or one of the two of them it says I don’t

Rhonda (01:13:51.869)
me to. We don’t do readings. I’m gonna put this on social media like with us just both being like…

That Glagsow Witch (01:14:05.508)
reading because I will never DM you for reading. My DMs are closed. can’t, I don’t, and I love speaking to people so I hate that they’re closed. yeah, don’t do readings at all. I like glad-go-witch TikTok on Instagram. I do have a YouTube channel because I thought I should have but I don’t really know what to do on YouTube so it’s just there.

Rhonda (01:14:16.361)
So we’ll find you at that Glasgow etch on.

Rhonda (01:14:27.369)
Well this will go on YouTube so I’ll tag you. And then presumably you’ll have a link because I know that you do like saining workshops and you’ll do other bits and pieces so if people are interested in working with J.O. you’ll get our on our link in your bio I assume.

That Glagsow Witch (01:14:36.305)
I do.

That Glagsow Witch (01:14:42.844)
It’s all there. got, I have a website. Sorry, that’s completely hate saying that I have a website, but there’s a website to call it my website. It’s just, it’s just so that if I’m putting out workshops or I have a calendar subscription service for a calendar that helps people follow the dates for the Celtic fire festivals, the old dates and the new dates. So. Yeah, like I love, I love all that.

Rhonda (01:14:48.397)
Waves like

Rhonda (01:15:06.887)
Nice, like the Cullinane No Moon ones and the… Yeah!

That Glagsow Witch (01:15:12.312)
But also just to remind people that the date is not a tick box, it is a season and if you want to celebrate…

Rhonda (01:15:19.091)
I’ve just, my new book is called The Celtic Wheel of the Year and see how many times in it I’ve wrote, it’s a season!

That Glagsow Witch (01:15:25.82)
It’s not like a birthday. We’re getting really good at human beings at being it’s my birthday week and it’s my birthday month. Right? I love that because you’re doing lots of celebrating of something that’s wonderful for you. And I feel like that about the Fyre festivals as well when someone says, I miss Salon and I’m like, it’s November. You didn’t. Yeah, you’re good.

Rhonda (01:15:34.781)
Yes, month.

Rhonda (01:15:51.335)
two weeks? No.

That Glagsow Witch (01:15:53.505)
You can sit down and have a dumb supper any time you like. You know, there’s no rush. So I have a website where I put my workshops on. I don’t do them all the time. I have a job outside of being a witch. I’ve never seen myself as a teacher. But I realise that’s really ironic that I have a workshop. But I feel as if people have asked, so I’m just telling them how I practice.

Rhonda (01:15:58.003)
Sock length.

That Glagsow Witch (01:16:23.068)
I’ve done the saining workshop once before and that was just at the summer solstice and then I’m doing it again just coming up on the equinox which is really ironically two times when saining is probably not mentioned about doing at those times of the year but I feel that it gets you ready for the season that’s coming so but yeah so and it’s really nice because when we’re doing the saining workshops people are talking

Rhonda (01:16:40.937)
I

Rhonda (01:16:45.789)
That does. That does.

That Glagsow Witch (01:16:53.468)
loads about it afterwards, which is nice to see the words put out there and for people to understand that words in water make up far more of it than fire and smoke. So, it’s good.

Rhonda (01:17:06.759)
Mm-hmm, exactly. Thank you so much. What a smashing time. Let’s do it again because I think we’ve got at least another 15 podcasts in us after today.

That Glagsow Witch (01:17:10.47)
Thank you.

That Glagsow Witch (01:17:16.792)
No, could do. Definitely could do. There’s so much to talk about. It’s just such a big, vast thing that I could talk about all the time. think that I like a soulful conversation. I like it when it goes to places that makes you feel uncomfortable and ask you questions yourself. And I like it when people have got differences of opinions and it’s good to do. good to have those. That’s what makes you grow as a person.

Rhonda (01:17:20.178)
You

Rhonda (01:17:27.742)
I

Rhonda (01:17:42.403)
Thank you so much for the great time and we will hopefully see you again soon.

That Glagsow Witch (01:17:44.476)
Yeah, I’m sure. Thanks again, well done. Bye.