Rhonda McCrimmon (00:03.95)

Hey and welcome to Shaman Talk. My name is Rhonda and I'm your host and this week we're doing another interview. I'm delighted to welcome Adrianne. Now Adrianne is currently training with the Centre for Shamanism which I'm delighted about but she has also spent 20 years in information technology and consulting and she left the corporate life to pursue building her own personal and spiritual development business and she finds that the magic happens when the physiological energetics and the spiritual kind of all aligning our clients. So she's an energy practitioner, certified professional coach, and she is also the host of the Source Code podcast. And also we can't pass this by without mentioning her beautiful dogs as well, especially little Piper. So I asked Adrianne to come on the podcast today because I wanted to give people a sense of the versatility of shamanism.

especially when it comes to a more corporate background and when it comes to what I affectionately call life coaching. I know that's not the term that Adrianne uses but you know to give you a sense of the sort of things that she does and I just wanted to have a chat and bring some ideas forward especially around how shamanism can be useful in that field. So welcome Adrianne, thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. Yeah.

So let's kick it off. Can you share a little bit about your background and just in life and in business and your development practice and maybe a little bit about what drew you to shamanism in the first place? So I was in information technology and a fortune, most of my time was in a Fortune 100 company and I was burned out and I had an opportunity to sort of engineer my layoff.

my own layoff. And when I left, I took some time. I had an opportunity to go back and do the same thing at a corporate. And I just didn't want to do that. I was, I was just fed up. And what I really liked in my work was people development. And so I sat on the path to get certified, uh, professional coaching by the ICF.

Rhonda McCrimmon (02:29.326)

I went and did leadership coaching for corporate America for a little while and did some consulting. And I hired a coach, a business coach, and that was extremely helpful as well, but there was still something missing. And because I was still in the corporate churn as it were,

And finally, I pivoted to, after working with my own coach, I pivoted to a more, let's focus on people's personal lives, small business and entrepreneurs. And that sort of led me to joining all these masterminds and whatnot. And what really started, because I'm a pattern recognition person. And I started.

I was in these big large groups, I was in some smaller masterminds and I kept seeing over and over that these people would gather up all this knowledge and then they would sort of try to push themselves through it. Like it's the whole hustle culture type thing. And they would...

go, people would go from coach to coach to coach to program to program to program. Even I was going from program to program to program within the same coach. And I would make incremental progress and every once in a while I would have a little bit of a leap, but a lot of stuff wasn't sticking. And I was also looking at the people that were having a more successful time with it and.

I got really curious around what were the differences in that. And a lot of it was the fact that people couldn't integrate and I couldn't integrate. And I was like, what is wrong with me? And I keep going to these things, paying lots of money and I'm not getting it. And there was a, and I was probably about,

Rhonda McCrimmon (04:51.118)

four or five years into my practice at that point. And I was making money and all of that, but I wasn't having like the deep, meaningful satisfaction that I was seeing other people have. And I wasn't doing the explosive financial growth that I was seeing as well. And then I had...

Rhonda McCrimmon (05:16.174)

I had my stepfather died and I had been doing energy work for a very long time at that point, but I was doing energy work on him as he transitioned to wherever we transitioned to. And it was such a profound experience that I walked out of there,

with an entirely different view on things, sort of a reset of priorities and also this curiosity because it was the entire day was just a really, really different experience. And I was a pretty sensitive kid, but like you've said on a previous podcast, we sort of squish our gifts down as we grow up. And that whole experience was like,

things that had been bubbling up, it just sort of blew the lid off a lot of those. And that same, a couple of months later, because it definitely wasn't leaving me alone, this urge to search different practices, when I came across some writings around shamanism and also a different flavor of shamanism than yours,

coming out of South America. And so I signed up for another program. And I studied it and it was incredibly interesting. And it did help me get perspective on some of the things that I was experiencing, but it was still was very much an intellectual exercise, but it definitely started me down that path.

of there's something more here. And like I said, I was a sensitive kid, so things were coming, starting to happen again that had not happened in a very long time. And I just was trying to make sense of it. So that's how I started that. So that's interesting. So you actually started with South American style of shamanism. Yeah. And I'm interested in,

Rhonda McCrimmon (07:44.974)

how that went for you and then how did you end up here in the Celtic realms? What was it that brought you here? So I feel like I, the, there was all of this things that even before I left corporate, I, I, after I left corporate, I found this huge pile of CDs that I would listen to in my car around intuition and a lot of Carolyn Mays's work.

and Christine Noni, another medical intuitive, like all these, and I didn't even remember, Rhonda, I did not remember having that catalog in there. Because again, I was so determined to climb that corporate ladder and do it that way. And I was like, oh, crazy, this is crazy. But it was...

things were making sense from the studies around more of an animistic view of everything is energy, everything is interconnected. And I really loved that part, but I didn't resonate with some of the specific initiation rights. Like it just wasn't feeling anything. And

And I think, especially here in the States, we're very sensitive around cultural appropriation. And even though it was repeated that this is an open practice, this was shared, there was still a little, I think a little bit of that in my, and which is probably another reason why I didn't really resonate with chakras. I mean, I use them in some of the energy work and some of the energy training I've had, but there was never something, it just didn't resonate. And then I found you on,

the brief period of time I was on TikTok, which was very short. Ah. But, oh. And I'm Scotch -Irish lineage. And we are very heavily, my husband and I are very heavily involved in like the Highland games and, you know, he got married in a kilt. Like we are all about the Scottish, he's Scottish heritage as well.

Rhonda McCrimmon (10:08.398)

And there was something there that it was like, this makes it, it was, it made sense. And then I was like, okay, let me go listen to this three cauldrons healing ceremony. I think is, it was the first thing that I did. And it was like, it was like all the light bulbs went on and there was this deep feeling of knowing in my body that, Oh,

this is where you're supposed to be. This is what you need to study now. This is going to make other things make sense. And I had called a friend of mine who had helped me through some ancestral healing work that we had done because she's been trained as a shaman in a different vertical. And she's like, yeah, you found your people. You found your people. I was like, ah, okay. And so,

I've been taking the apprenticeship. I did a journey into Celtic shamanism, which was a short course that you did last year. And now I'm in practitioner training. Yeah. There's a funny story actually about that. Do you want to tell it? So I was super excited last, I think it was last June, when you opened up for practitioner training and I got all the books because there's some reading to do and.

and I started looking at the dates and I thought that you had made an error because it said that the classes wouldn't start until August of 2024. And I thought we were gonna start in August 2023. And so I reached out to you and you said, oh no, no, you're set to go in August 2024. And I was like, what? I was.

I was so devastated when I found out that the dates were, that I had misread the dates. I was really, really devastated, but you were very gracious. And I was able to get into the 2023 practitioner training class. Yeah. I opened up a couple of spaces so we could keep it even and drag someone else back a year as well. Very, very, very grateful for that.

Rhonda McCrimmon (12:34.542)

Yeah, that was so, so I think it was very much meant to be though. Yes. It's absolutely right. It just fits so well into the group that is right now. It's great. All right. So I would like you to describe shamanism to someone who's unfamiliar with it, especially in the context of like modern life and business. How would you, how are you describing shamanism to people? Um,

I describe it as a spiritual practice.

that enables you to develop a strong sense of intuition and sense of self so that you can.

be more interconnect, see the interconnectedness of things. And...

have a better sense of groundedness and harmony. Nice, nice, nice, nice. Because I think a lot of people, for me, I think there's a lot of people that feel alone, even if they're in a household of people. Yeah. And they're searching for something. And I think, I mean, that was definitely for me, Catherine May has a great quote and she says that it's,

Rhonda McCrimmon (13:53.366)

Enchantment can't be destroyed. It waits patiently until it waits patiently for us to remember we need it. And I think that's what shamanism gives you is a pathway to allow enchantment back into your life. At least it has for me. And because of that,

I have the ability to feel that interconnectedness of all things. Yeah. That more animistic view. And it was interesting earlier when you were talking about your journey to finding shamanism and there's a phrase I use sometimes, you know, spiritually displaced. And I hear that a lot with my North American friends is that you often don't feel welcome in the lineages connected to the land where you live, but you're actually often not welcomed. You might...

You find me, so you're all good, but I've heard from some people who don't and maybe they hit other groups of more Celtic practitioners and they're not welcome there either. So I hear this a lot where, you know, my white or European descent North American brothers and sisters feel really spiritually displaced and don't feel like they have anywhere to go for this animistic, Earth -based spirituality.

Um, is that something that you've ever heard anybody talk about or if you come across that? I see a lot of judgment, especially in the States around, around that. There's a lot of talk of, well, you're white. You don't have a community. And it doesn't matter the, whatever source that's coming from, cause it comes from all sorts of different sources. And that.

I feel like that's, it's such a limited view because if you're really practicing seeing the interconnectedness of everything, there's room for everybody and there's a place for everybody. And if you really feel it, you would know that to be true. And,

Rhonda McCrimmon (16:11.534)

I think that that's, I think some of that is, I see that the most with people that grew up in a really strict Christian household a lot. That's probably because that's what I've been surrounded with. I grew up in a pretty strong Christian household. My grandfather was a minister, but he was also a very violent person as well. So there was a lot of mixed messaging around,

Christian religion as a young child. And I think that there's a lot of people that have that hellfire and brimstone that was in their.

their upbringing and they're having a really hard time with the concept of A, there's more than one way of doing things and there's different belief systems out there and...

Rhonda McCrimmon (17:15.342)

And just because one didn't work for you doesn't mean that that eliminates all of them. So I think that that's, I think that's one of the things that people in North America especially struggle with. Yeah, it's tricky. Definitely tricky. And I'm curious about something in terms of like your personal journey. So I know that you've, you're

Personal work is something that's like one of your core values. It's like so important to you. And I wonder if you would share with the listeners what adding shamanism has done for your personal growth, your personal practice, given that you're really dedicated to that. So I think the biggest...

impact has been the ability to integrate some of the knowledge that I've collected over the years so that I can buy. I say that therapy gave me great coping skills. My business coach and personal coach gave me, allowed me to process information differently. And my spiritual practices have allowed me and enabled me to embody that wisdom.

So would you say it would like bringing in that sort of feminine aspect so you've got your knowledge which is really important it's very masculine so would you say that shamanism brought in that kind of the more feminine embodied mysterious intuitive aspects? I feel like

It definitely brought in more of the feminine because that was actually one of the things I struggled with a lot around was if you're feminine, you're weak. I grew up in a very male dominant, I mean, from a career standpoint, I worked in male dominated industry in a male dominated, like in tech is male dominated. And then the industries I was in were male dominated. And it was, I was very uncomfortable.

Rhonda McCrimmon (19:25.198)

with that. And so it really allowed that integration of, again, like the knowledge is more masculine, but that intuition and the softening and the surrendering to something that was outside of myself, but also at the same time, developing that strong sense of self -trust. And I, cause I think that's,

I think that's the root of most all personal development practices is self -trust. And then from there, you can trust others, then you can trust processes, from then you can trust outside of yourself. So it just - Would you say that self -trust then as a concept is like a lower cauldron process or something you have to do first before you can start to do other things? Yeah.

You'd like to skip to that mental caldron, but I learned from experience that that is not a wise idea. Follow the process. Do you have any like stories or like little anecdotes? You're good at those that you'd like to share about that. Skip, you know? I think that, um,

Rhonda McCrimmon (20:50.382)

So all of my life, I have felt like I have been of split minds. Even my astrological chart is 50 % water, planets in water and 50 % planets in fire. I don't have any earth and I don't have any air, which is rare. And so I've always felt like I was arguing with myself. And when I, I think the first journey I took with the lower caldron,

there was nothing in there but rust. Like there was nothing but like rust. And it's like, what do I, what do I do with this? And even coming out of that, I remember I just felt dry. Like I physically felt dry. Like I was like, I, everything felt dry. But I, and one of the biggest lessons I think I took out of that, now that I'm talking about it was,

Rhonda McCrimmon (21:50.286)

It was that rescuer.

it was the rescuer, right? Because I would, this two parts of me would be very people pleasing and wanna like do the mighty mouse thing and run in and save the day. And then this other part of me with all the fire up, like, well, people are just gonna use you and you gotta be direct to you, you gotta be hard and you gotta be this, that and the other. And I don't think it was until someone said that water and fire make steam.

that I was like, these two things can work together very effectively when you're integrated. And that's like, even now, if someone, if I ask someone, like, why do you want to do this thing? Or why do you want to start this business? Why, what do you want? Well, I want to help people. Why? Why? Why?

Because when I said that in the very beginning, it was because I wanted validation. I wanted to be liked. I wanted to be valued. I needed someone. And I spent most of my corporate career that way. Like I would get all the exceeds expectations and all that kind of reviews and everything. And I would go in there, oh, maybe I'll get.

promoted this year or maybe that. Um, and it was always a challenge because even, even with an exceeds expectations overall, if there was one little tick on that saying, Oh, you know, you were, you were, you met expectations here. I would zero in on that because that was that whole people, please or thing that lower. That was all of that. That was all of that. And I was a little, um,

Rhonda McCrimmon (23:53.838)

little pissed, I bet, because I'm like, I have done all of this personal development work. I have been through this. Why is like, and are you kidding me? But yes, I have done all the, you know, the intellectual stuff, but there wasn't a lot of, there wasn't a lot of really soulful integration, I would say. And there was, and there was still a lot of.

resistant to what I would consider the woo -woo gifts I had. And that was probably, that was the journey into shamanism allowed me to accept those more. That's a work in progress. And be okay integrating that into the work that I do.

Okay, let's go there. So I know you're still training. And so you won't have integrated, you know, you won't have integrated particularly, but I know it must influence the work that you do. And I wonder, so you've touched on some challenge, like the hint of a challenge around like your woo woo gifts. Yeah. And what do you what do you think you're gonna do? How do you think you're gonna like, integrate it into your? And I mean, I guess you could call it like,

what you do is like secular spirituality, right? Within like your personal development for people. Are you gonna stick there? Are you gonna like bring in the woo woo? What are you gonna do? It's interesting. So when I say it's influenced and made me okay with like when before...

when I was talking to someone around what I did or what I do around the leadership development or personal coaching or whatnot, or even some business strategy work of what I do, I went back and had a conversation with all like, why did you hire me? That recon because tweaking marketing and whatnot. And they said, oh, it's the, it's.

Rhonda McCrimmon (26:16.718)

that other stuff you do. And I'm like, that it was the energy work or talking about grounding practices or like all the, I'm like that, that was what makes me different. They said, I had a client that told me that I was a cross between the ancient one from the doctor strange movie and Wendy from billions. And I was like,

Okay, that sounds about right. It does. I was like, all right, you know, cause I can sit there and look and go from your, you know, from your overall business strategy, this is not going to work. And here's how you're messing that up with, you know, the mindset, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah thing. But also, hey, here are these energetic blocks you're going to have to, and I'm, I would not have felt solid enough in myself.

to have a conversation out of the networking group around that stuff or post something like that on a LinkedIn or something like that. And that's dissipated quite a bit over the past couple of years. Yeah. And I will say that when I'm also preparing for like a VIP day or something like an offsite with a client,

I will go now and make an offering to the space that I'm on before they even get there. So those personal touches are influencing. They're not like, I'm not practicing with the client, but it's the little touches like that that have influenced me in the day to day, because I think that's as the journey to

during this practitioner training is you're not like there's skillsets that you learn, but it's the journey becoming a practitioner, not the piece of paper becoming the practitioner. So. And how are you finding the training? It's amazing. It's definitely.

Rhonda McCrimmon (28:42.042)

stretched me in ways that I knew it would, but I didn't know how that would look. It's been, I've gotten a little overwhelmed a couple of times, but I've gotten much better at asking for help from you, but also for my support team, my spiritual support team, because I think that's part of this process is developing.

a much stronger relationship with that spiritual support team every day, not just, you know, when you're in class and whatnot. And I'm curious, how do you, how would you, I have never, I came out of corporate as well, but a very different field. Like I didn't spend much time in like conferences or training and I'd not gone down the coaching route either. So I've not done, you know, the masterminds and.

all these like conferences where everybody gets together and there's speakers, I haven't done all of that. And I wonder as someone who has spent a lot of time in training spaces, how your shamanic training differs from other training that you've done. Oh, that's a really good question.

Rhonda McCrimmon (30:06.286)

Well, there's definitely a sacredness there. And I would say also even within the apprenticeship, there was a sacredness. There was a self -study course, but that was very different than any other course that I ever took.

Rhonda McCrimmon (30:28.366)

and there's a...

Rhonda McCrimmon (30:35.054)

I think that it's definitely divinely organized, I think is the best way I could put it, because the people in the group.

Arrrr

It's obvious to me, or at least I feel that the people that are supposed to be in this particular group are there. Where it's a conference, it's sort of like a free for all. And you never know. I've been pretty lucky about the masterminds I've been in, but I've also by nature used a lot of discernment around that. But I have been to some conferences that have been a whopper.

or two. So interesting, so interesting. Because what I know about the way that I teach or my style is very fluid. And it's not very method based. I don't know a method based teacher. The journey I believe that my guides take my students on is very personal. So in order for it to be a personal journey of exploration and exploring your own gifts, I can't even be giving you like pigeonholes and files and like step by step. So.

I know it can be a bit tricky in the beginning, right? Because you're like, oh, well, is there like a way to like, how do we know? Well, it's interesting you say that because I don't, if it was like that, I probably wouldn't take the training. Cause I'm, I'm very similar in my approach to like my retreats and stuff like that. It's like, okay, so I trust myself that I'll, cause I, I don't do large programs. I'm very individualized. Um.

Rhonda McCrimmon (32:21.358)

Cause I'm all about like, what does this, most of my clients have already gone through a lot of different programs. They come to me because they want that very individualized focus. And I don't know what that looks like until I have a conversation with you. And I trust my intuition to develop whatever it is that you need. And even in my retreats, they're like that too. They're very, the right mix of people usually end up together.

And I have an outline and that's what we go with. And then I pay attention to what I feel guided to change. And sometimes things have changed in the middle and we just sort of roll with it. But I can only speak for myself, but that's how I best learn to, because I've taken very boxed in training.

ICF training is very methodology-based and whatnot. And I'm a human design three five. I love experimentation and doing things my own way. And I have a little resistant to authority or whatnot. But I think that you've got a nice blend of allowing the exploration, but also the structure of

hey, you've got to have these baseline skills because this is serious work. This is sacred work. And you don't want to just go traipsing out there messing with people. And I think that's another thing that's influenced my business and the training that I've taken with you over the past couple of years is,

I take my spiritual ethics a lot more serious now than I used to around, you know, just because you can go traipsing through somebody's energy doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't for various reasons, right? So that's definitely changed as well. Nice. So what can you...

Rhonda McCrimmon (34:47.502)

clients expect outcome wise? Give me an example of a journey that one of your clients goes through.

Most of my clients have had some sort of, I treat narcissism in their background. I don't know why that just seems to be what is drawn to me. And there's a reclaiming of...

their identity separate from that human, because it's usually something that they were raised with. And...

Usually they want to work on releasing that and they've gone to various different places. And again, it's the integration part. And when we start talking about the physiological effects that can happen, if you've erased in that environment, then there's a better than average chance you'll have a dysregulated nervous system. So we work on that.

Um, there are some core beliefs that you, that the person probably has ingrained in their mind and we work on changing those. And the only thing that changes belief systems are sudden impact. You have a spiritual experience or, um, you have to work on slowing down so that you can speed up later by creating different experiences. And.

Rhonda McCrimmon (36:30.606)

It's interesting to me that most all of them, most of mine are business owners, small business owners. It usually affects their business also in different ways. Right. I've been there so much, so frustrating. You know, boundaries. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. And that's, again, we're going back and forth.

My boundaries are so much more effortless in comparison to prior to studying shamanism. I could put up some very strong boundaries. They're different now. They take less of my energy now. And the way I teach my clients is different now around that as well. Because, you know, you...

go to mom's house and you've got the boundaries up, or you go to dad's house, you got the boundaries up and you have to sleep for three days.

That's exhausting. But that's the type of.

I've been told this many times and my own coach asked me in the beginning, he's like, what do you do? And I used to say, I turn people's light back on. And now I say, I help people turn their light back on because I'm not doing it. They're doing it. If I'm doing it, then it's not gonna stay on. I just help them.

Rhonda McCrimmon (38:18.328)

find a way to turn that light back on. And when they do, as a ripple effect, because they usually want to go out and helps the world in a different way. I think everybody's purpose is the same. I think we're here for the evolution of our soul and to contribute back to the collective in some positive way. And I believe you can do that if you take a breath on this earth or if you live to be 105. It's just different.

Lovely. Okay. I want to ask, as I'm really curious, actually really curious about this, but what do you have a favorite book that you can recommend for us? This is so hard because I'm such an avid reader. Right. But the one that I've been recommending the most of late is a relatively new book. So I'm going to pick it. Okay. And I think that anyone can gain something from this, whether they're on a shamanistic path or not.

And it's The Creative Act by Rick Rubin.

I'm write it soon. Yeah, it's a good one. Cause I need another book on my list. Rick Rubin is a, I think he's actually, he's a music producer. And ironically, I, the music people that he's like the Beastie Boys or something like that, like not my cup of tea, but I think I heard, I must've heard him on a podcast and his view on creativity.

was just so beautiful that I was like, I gotta get this book. And I read it and I've read it probably about three or four times now. So I like a book I really try to like repeat it in there. And...

Rhonda McCrimmon (40:08.846)

I feel pretty strongly that creativity is our path to connection. I think it makes us more curious when we're more creative and when we're more curious, we're less judgmental. Yeah. We can appreciate the differences. It's also the creativity is the feminine. I'm all about masculine and feminine, sacred, genuine at the moment. That's like where my mind really is just set. So I'm like every time somebody speaks, that's the like...

the lens through which it ends up in my brain. But yeah, this idea of feminine creativity create life. And then also embass as well, the illumination and the poetry and the ancient way of creating the oral knowledge for the community. It's just so deeply important and very much set aside in our culture just because of the...

suppression and then littling of the feminine and feminine aspects in life. And yeah, so that's where my mind's been. Okay, I won't go on a, I won't go on a side workshop about that, what I've been thinking about this week. All right, before we go, I wanted to ask this last question, if there is a ritual or a practice that you can share with our listeners that you enjoy that they can do easily at home? Yes.

And this is something that I did before shamanism, but has changed after shamanism. I think that one of the best ways to let things go is writing. And there's been many studies that that is true. So I like to, if I need something,

I need to get something out that I'll write it down. And then typically I burn it. And that's my ritual. It used to be my ritual. It's very common ritual. Now I create ceremony around it. I do a couple, if it's something that's particularly challenging, I'll do what they call expressive journaling where I will take 15 minutes for four days straight. And I'll write the same thing in time.

Rhonda McCrimmon (42:35.214)

Then I collect those, I light a candle, I make an offering to the fire.

and then I release it. Then I take a bath or a shower to rinse the rest of it off of me. And that has been even more impactful practice than it was 10 years ago. And if you're not a firebug, I am, I'm an Aries. I found that,

some clients like to write on rice paper and offer it to water. Nice. Yeah, that's amazing. Also a firebug, also in the 80s. I kept having people say, oh, I've got a fire in my apartment or there's a no fire, there's a fire ban. And, you know, that was the thing that I came up with quite recently, actually, the whole rice paper thing. But only because I like to just make big fires.

Any opportunity.

Great, thank you. Thank you, Adrian. This has been so interesting. It's been really, really nice to get a chance to just drill you and ask you some questions because it's not often I get to do that. But if you guys are interested in finding out more about Adrian's work, you can find her website adriannemcdonald.com. She also has a podcast, which is great, called the Source Code Podcast. And I will put these links on the website.

Rhonda McCrimmon (44:10.83)

the podcast page as well so you can find that easily. And then thank you as always for tuning in. If you have any questions or stories or insights that you'd like to share, I love hearing from you. So you can find me on Instagram at Centre for Shamanism and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. It's a great way to show your appreciation for the time and effort that we put into creating this content for you. So if you love Adrianne's podcast, you could also subscribe to hers as well just so that we can all like feel the love.

So thank you very much for listening. Until next time, may the wisdom of the ancestors guide you, the warmth of your hearth comfort you and the sacred cauldrons within you. Find harmony and balance.