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Hey folks, here we are again and we’re continuing our witchy theme for Shaman
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Talk. And today I’m rather delighted, I have to say, to be joined by Judica
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Ellis. So many of you may know her as the author of various encyclopedias, the
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encyclopedia of 5,000 spells and the encyclopedia of witchcraft and all kinds of things, Daily Magic, and loads of
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other books. Like, you know, Judica’s just one of the elders of the craft. I think she’s a writer, a teacher, and a
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practitioner who just has brought through in her lifetime this magical
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wealth of knowledge that she just offers to countless people. And it’s really an honor to have you here, Judica. And we
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are also working together at the gathering of the witches this year. So, I’m trying to really like reach out to
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the people that are like moving into that container with me so that we can um
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you know get to know each other a little better and also to let people know what it is that we’re trying to achieve and
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why we do the things that we do together. So, very very delighted to
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have you here Judica. Welcome. Thank you. I’m delighted to be here. Thank you for having me. You’re so welcome for your very kind
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words. One of the things one of the things that I’m work that I always like to ask people and you’ve probably told your story a million times but for
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anybody who doesn’t know what’s your origin story like what
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my origin story you know I am asked that all the time and I I fear I don’t have
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the answer they want they want dramatic you know the the you know it’s like St.
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Paul having the vision but I was just sort of born like this. I am a child in
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a family of adults. My only sibling is 12 years older than I am. And I had a
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par my family my you know the nuclear family my mother my sister I wouldn’t
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say they were practitioners but they were interested and my mother t I I was
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born in America to parents who had just come from Hungary and my mother taught
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herself English by teaching me how to read and I was a very young and
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precocious reader and they let me read whatever was in the house. No one
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explained anything to me, you know. I mean, I read The Godfather and I mean, no one explained anything to me, but no
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one no one took it out of my hands either. And we had my sister. So, when I was starting first grade, my sister was
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starting college. She went to Cooper Union, which is an art and engineering school in New York City. And at that
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time, it was around the corner from the old Wiser bookstore, Samuel Wiser
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bookstore. And on her way home from school, she would buy books. She would
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uh and and you know, tarot cards and she would come home with treasure. And I
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stole everything. I mugged her. I waited by the door and I mugged her. And you know, I I I mean, that’s a simple story.
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And I guess the the more complex story is why does a six-year-old want to read
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an astrology book? But I did. I did. This has just been I have always
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identified with witches and maybe my mother did too because she read me we
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read a lot of fairy tales. My encyclopedia of witchcraft has a big section on fairy tales and fairy tale
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witches. And you know there’s a lot of coded shamanic information in fairy
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tales. you if once you have the eye to see it to hear it then you’ll you know
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it’s there for you and I always identified with the witch I always identified with the witch I remember
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just being so horrified at the Wizard of Oz movie which you know at that time was
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on once a year and you had to watch it was a spectacle and it is I interpreted
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it even as a child it’s a movie about killing witches and I thought it was horrifying just horrifying
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So, you know, Hansel and Gretle, I find an upsetting story. And I I write about these things, not because of the
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children. Those children, those rude children eating that woman’s house, you know, who ends up dead. It’s not the
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children, it’s the witch. So, if you really are listening to that story, you you you will hear these these details. I
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like the stories where the witches, you know, the witches are proud and defiant and powerful and they win. But, you
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know, and I have just been doing it ever since. It started off as a very personal
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interest for me. And when I was a teenager and in my 20s
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and it was a maybe both a better and a worse time in New York City, there were
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small stores. People could afford to keep small stores open. there were some wonderful witch stores and there were
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practitioners and I gravitated to that. So, I’ve just been doing it ever since.
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And at some point, I, you know, long story short, I I wrote a book and I I didn’t think anybody would read it. So,
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I used my real name, which, you know, it never occurred to me not to use my real name. And so, you know, I I I I found
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myself out of the broom closet and here I am. That’s Basin. And I was listening to
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Lisa Mariano. Her name is, she’s a Yian analyst. And she was talking about how today we water down fairy tales for
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children. And it’s actually probably like not doing them a favor. So I have a I have a four-year-old and we do the
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Grim’s tales and you know, we do all the all the fairy tales as they were, you know, and some of them are quite scary
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and she loves that. Like she gets so much out of it. like the archetypal nature seems to really touch her wee
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soul in a way that I have two kids. My older kid is 24. So when I was bringing
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up Eve like I did do that I was very young myself so I didn’t really know any better and I did do all the watering
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down and the oh that’s too scary and well I think it’s easier for the adults. You’re right. Yes.
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Yeah. I mean because you know they provoke discussions that maybe we are not ready to have but children children
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get it. Children you know the world is a scary place and that that is reflected
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back in fairy tales. They’re they’re not watering them down. the stories,
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although you know the grim stories and I I I wrote this you know this is in my
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encyclopedia of witchcraft and if you the details are more maybe precise in
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the book because I check them but there were numerous editions of Grim’s Fairy
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Tales and with each edition they softened and sort of whitewashed the
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stories in the original version of Hansel and Gretle and like Snow White they’re not stepmothers it’s the mother
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who does that. And I think it just if I did not No, no, no. It’s often the mother who
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does it that the stories become a little bit gentler and maybe less troubling for
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the adults if not for the children. I think children know that you’re lucky if you have good parents.
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Yeah. There’s just something innate about archetypal stories that’s that really seem to resonate. It’s shame that
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we seem to be like kind of washing them away a little bit. So anyway, I digress
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into something that I find quite interesting which is fairy tales and sto fairy tales and stories and children and
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like how we like manage our culture and and how we like we by trying to keep
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everybody safe and you know everybody the same and we we’re just missing so
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much of the human experience that you know causing our kids. I think that is one of the that it is one of and I mean
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I mean these are all things I write about. You know this is if you’re prolific you find you talk you’re talking about what you’ve written about
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but I think one of the incentives original incentives for witchcraft and
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spellcasting is we’re not all born the same. Some people you know it’s like did
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you get a good hand of cards? Not everybody does but you want to win anyway. Some people are born with good
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parents. Some people are not. Some people don’t have parents. Some people have bad
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parents. Some people, you know, find themselves at the mercy of others. Some
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people are born with all their limbs and some people are not. Some people have
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money, are born with, you know, born into prosperity and some people are not. And spellcasting is the way to
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even the playing field to what am I lacking?
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And I cannot and I cannot obtain through conventional sources because money and
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brute strength are easier than witchcraft. So if you have them, you can
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use those things. You know, if you have billions of dollars, you can make things
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happen for yourself. But if you don’t have either, you can learn to cast a
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magic spell. Tell us tell us more. How? Well, I mean, it’s it’s it’s it’s a
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process. I think a lot of it is boiling down the essence of what you really want because often we we think we want things
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that we don’t really want. And how many of us, you know, we well, we
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want things because we’re told we should want them. We want things because they will make other people happy. We’re told
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things because we’re indoctrinated into this is what you should want. But then there’s that little voice inside
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that is like liken it to driving with a parking brake on. You know, you’re you just there’s a there’s that that
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resistance that inner resistance. And how many of us, you know, you you you
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have gotten what you think you want and you’re still not happy. M well you
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mentioned there about billionaires and I thought well apparently most billionaires are not actually that happy. Yeah. Yeah. So you have this so
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you so from where from my side so I find my way into magic through shamanism
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through core shamanism and we all find our own ways right. We’ve all got there’s a million paths to heaven and and we just find a way that works. So
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that’s the way that I find I find my way to like Scottish folk magic and different like traditions and spells
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from the lands that that I am from and the places that I live. and I find my way to things like the three cauldrons.
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So the three cauldrons, so I think this is like maybe kind of what you’re talking about a little bit. So the three cauldrons is like a framework where you
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figure out what’s going on in your psyche, what’s going on in your
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relationship with yourself, what’s going on with your relationship with the outside world, what are your masks, how
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your behaviors affect who you are and in your life. And then once you kind of
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align those two lower cauldrons, your upper cauldron, which is the place of magic, connection, spirituality, how
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that naturally then aligns and becomes more powerful. So it sounds like a similar thing you’re talking about where
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it’s like spellcasting as you call it or shamanism and connecting with spirit
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through journey work and intention the way I would describe it really is intrinsically linked to our day-to-day
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life. who we are, what our values are, how we show up, how we choose to be, how how our perceptions are. Like, is that
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what is that kind of what you’re Yeah. I mean, if we’re going to get more esoteric magic spell, there is core
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belief. I I don’t even like the word belief because belief, there’s there’s a
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desirous aspect to belief. We we believe what we want to believe. You know, what
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do you believe versus what you think versus what you know? You know I know I
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am sitting here speaking with you now. This is what I know. I
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you know so this but this theory is that there is
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a magical there’s a current of energy running through the universe running through everything including us
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including human beings animals color sounds you herbs plants you name it. If it if
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it is a natural thing then there is that energy through it. And I the best way
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for me to explain it is when I is with uh there’s an Egypt an Egyptian creation
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myth, an ancient Egyptian creation myth where upon the creator looks out upon
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the world having created it and realizes that everything is not good and
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everything will not continue to be good and especially human beings are destined
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for heartbreak. And so the final act of creation is to create this energy which
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is known as Heekka. H E K. Or at least that’s how we pronounce it today. You
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know, who knows how they pronounced it 5,000 years ago, 8,000 years ago, but Heekka. And it is this magical current
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of energy. And it was created to help us ward off those blows of destiny and
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heartache. It’s there to be used for our benefit. It’s a positive force although
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angry people can use it in a negative way. That is a natural thing in the
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universe that just that just exists. And you know you can I think you can test
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these things that we’ve all walked into a room or walked into a place it could
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be inside outside and we felt good and it’s inexplicable. Why are we we’re
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standing here and why are we happy? And we’ve had the opposite. We’ve all walked into a room and all of a sudden our
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spirits, you know, sink. Why am I here? And often if you if you move things
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around a little bit, sometimes if you can try to determine what it is that is making you unhappy, you can change that.
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Magical spells are a conscious attempt to use this energy. And there are
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different schools around the world that the ancient Greeks believe that vowels conveyed this energy. And that’s why
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Cersei’s Island, the name only has vowels in it because it’s a magical island of power. Certain numbers are
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believed to have, you know, every culture has a magical tradition. Whether they’re happy about it now or not,
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whether they, you know, acknowledge it or not, they have one. All our ancestors have some kind of a magical tradition, a
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spiritual tradition. And so there there are different ways of because we use what we have. And I think that if you
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are living in a place now where you have access to a lot of things, you know, we
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can get flower essences with plants that exist only in remote rainforests, but we
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can get them now. So sometimes I think this is both a blessing, but also we we
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devalue it. seems too easy to, you know, it’s too too accessible almost. But we
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we have access to all these things, but not everybody does. And so, especially,
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you know, I’m not even thinking about our ancestors from 200 years ago or 2,000 years ago. We have ancestor from
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20,000 years ago. They certainly were not going to the supermarket. So, you
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know, so all these different traditions have arisen. If you have stones, that’s
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what you use. If you have seashells, that’s what you use. But if you’re, you know, if you’re some words have power.
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So the the most stark spells and I mean 5,000 spells, my encyclopedia, it has
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examples of all these things. People ask me sometimes, have you done all the spells? And it’s like, god forbid. There
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are spells in there for smallpox. No one should have to do those spells anymore. But there are different kinds of spells.
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And there are spells that you cast only with your mind, only with your words.
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And they’re actually more difficult because you are you’re shouldering the
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entire the weight of all the spell because what you are doing, every spell
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has to have a goal. And so what is your goal? And the more precise it can be,
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the more likely your spell is to work. So peace in your office,
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peace in your family is a lot easier to accomplish than world peace or
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you know galactic peace or you know it’s just the more precise can you see it?
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Can you see what success looks like? And often that’s just holding that vision because you are taking because we’re on
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a path and sometimes we need a detour and that’s what that spell you know do you need that detour
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because maybe you are going on a path that is not where you want to go or you’re going on a path that’s not
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beneficial for you or for others. Mhm. So there’s a lot in there. I wonder
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what direction can we go? What you’re talking about all spells having a goal. That’s really interesting. So I think my
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language for that would be like every journey we take or every connection with
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spirit we make has an intention and I have these like steps for intentions, right? And it sounds like the same
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thing. So this is my one of the things I like to do is like map. I’m like I think we all do the same thing but we all have
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like just a different map and the language and sometimes the language is different.
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Yeah, which is amazing, right? Because it means that so many more people can access the work
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because we all need we all have a different way of like interacting with the the divine or with you know whatever
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you want to call it which is why which that’s an excellent segue actually into the gathering of the witches
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because there are so many of us and we all come from like such a diverse background. I
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just think that the events like that are quite important and you know there are a lot of them around now. I would say that
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and not and you know not all summits and gatherings are created equal frankly.
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This one I really Yeah, this one I really love this one. I’ve done this. Tell me why.
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I think this is I was at the first one and I don’t know if this is maybe the fourth. I I have to tell you I have lost
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count but I really love the gathering of the witches. one because they present
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such diverse speakers and I like a virtual event, not necessarily for the
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presenters because I admit I miss I used to to teach a lot on the witchcraft
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circuit in the US and one of the nicest things is you get to meet your fellow
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presenters and I wish we were sitting at a table together. You know, this is very
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20th 21st century. We’re across the miles, across the time zones. Then there
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is something lovely about sitting there and actually getting to know people. But this is the 21st century. I have
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Aquarius rising. You know, it’s very Aquarian. You can tune in from anywhere.
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People come from all over the world and we can speak with each other and communicate with each other. And if you
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can’t make the event or it’s a whole weekend, it’s a whole weekend full of events and maybe your life doesn’t allow
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you to just plunk yourself in front of you know your laptop for 3 days without you know other responsibilities. You can
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it’s archived for six months and you can you can I always tell people you don’t
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have to take notes during my class you know just listen just be just be here
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and then you can go back later and take notes if you want to because you can watch it again you can watch it again I
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think this year there’ll be an opportunity there’ll be coven rooms where we can socialize which I really
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like about the coven rooms that’s what I really enjoy I like I don’t like being
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separate from the people that I’m working with. I like the opportunity for them to like just be there and maybe they think of something later or they
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just want to have a we chat. Like I’m so and I’m so up for that. I really enjoy that part. For people who don’t know what the
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covered rooms are, this is an opportunity to come and you know we’re mingling. It’s it’s a little bit of a
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social room. You can mingle with your fellow attendees, with some of the speakers. I it’s it’s it’s exciting.
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Also, you know, for us, I like to hear what people have to say. And often people often have questions after
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the class. They want to talk about things. They’ve had time to sort of mull it over and they want to they’ve come up
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with questions afterwards. So, this gives us an opportunity for discussion.
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I like this. If it’s no good for your time zone, you can tune in later. If the
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dog has to go for a walk, you could tune. Well, you know, life happens. I
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have never had the kind of I have never, you know, who knows, maybe I too will become a billionaire and have staff, but
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up until now, I have never had that. I I always, you know, I’ve always been the
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responsible one in my home. So, if something needs doing, you have to do
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it. And so this way if if you if you want to lock yourself away after
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everyone else has gone to bed and watched it then you can do it. And I think that’s so special.
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Or you know if you go special also you know just I’ve done so many events and afterwards some you know
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someone was sick or someone had a problem and they couldn’t come and they feel sad. This is like a a backup for
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that. You you don’t have to miss out. Exactly. And the thing that I really like about this is that that not only
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can you watch the replays, but the like the quality of the um teachers is a I
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mean me and you are there and also um of course you know of course but also my sister is
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on the roster. So Wendy doing spirit herbalism is my sister. Yeah. So Wendy’s there as well. I didn’t know. So shout
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out Yeah. shout out to Wendy. That’s exciting. So it’s really fun. Yeah. It’s really
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exciting. It’s really exciting. So, we love it. Like when you did it last year, but definitely this year. And we have
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Heather Ash as well who’s a friend of mine and obviously you and I know each other and
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I’m opening and I think I believe Matt Orin is closing it. I’ve known Matt for years. So there’s the
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Yeah. So there’s a real connection between all the presenters. Yeah. It’s just so nice. It’s s such good vibe
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and you know it’s for people like you’re saying for people who struggle with in-person events that’s one of the
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reasons I work online a lot as well because people really want to work with me but I’m in Scotland so unless you can fly to Scotland let’s do you know not
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everybody can so let’s do it online you know you know right after the lockdown there were a lot of virtual classes I took
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classes in London and Berlin and I could never have gone there Los Angeles just
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It opened it up to so many more people and I I do I I do understand people who
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want that personal but that’s that’s not
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always possible for a lot of people you know that that assumes you are living someplace where there is event space and
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they are going to bring you know I I don’t have I used to teach a lot in Baltimore but that’s because my children
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had sort of business in Baltimore and I had to be there a couple times a year. So, you know, since I was there, I, you
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know, knew someone who owned a store, but it’s not like I’m just driving around all the time and I end up in your
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town. Somebody has to, you know, unless you have a reason to be
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there, someone has to bring you. And these are all economic things, too. And
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the money is bad out there right now for everybody, I think. So this is um
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this is a full weekend of presentations that you can watch over and over again.
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It gives you the opportunity to meet other attendees. I I don’t know. I like it very much. I I’m
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I’m very grateful to do it. Yeah, me too. I really enjoy it. And
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then just like one last thing that I do, one of the reasons I like doing this as opposed to others is because you do
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presentations, but I think most teachers there’s something experiential like you’re actually learning skills. Like
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you’re leaving with a bucket of skills that you wouldn’t have had on arrival, right? Which I think is important as well,
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right? Cuz like that’s when I did the first when we did the first event, it was something that was
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impressed to me. The first year they did they did Gathering of the Witches was they wanted it to be more than just
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someone speaking like I can I can talk to you about various topics that
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interest me and I can write a paper and read it to you but unless you and I
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share the same interest it may not have that sort of you know the goal is to have people leave
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with something they can do something they a skill they didn’t have an insight
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they didn’t have. So, I like that. There’s a practical aspect to that I really like because people I think that
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the magical arts have had a lot of bad press. I mean, I know this for millennia
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millennia. Yeah. You know, the first witch hunt, the first documented witchcraft witch hunt is pagan Rome. So, it this is we’re
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going back. I think people sort of dismiss it as sort of this airy,
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trivial, not it’s not real life, but in fact it is real life.
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It is very real life. This Yeah. Woo woo. Exactly. Is it woo? Am I woo enough? But but it is it is it is real
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life. It is my daily everyday life and it makes my life better.
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Yeah, me too. I’ve just I was reading this book. Where did I put it? I’ve lost it now. I’ve tidied up. But what I have
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noticed, Judakan, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, is that there’s quite a lot of um mainstream chat around certain things
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that surprise me. So like there’s the diary of a CEO. I don’t know if you know it, but it’s like a business podcast
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basically. It’s like one of the biggest in the world. And they recently had this neuroscientist on who was talking about
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talk how she talks to her husband after he died. and she talks about signs and she’s got this book called the signs the
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signs which I’m looking for and I can’t find cuz I was reading it and I I thought it’s so interesting to see
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finally finally people just starting to talk about these things as a normal part
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of life instead but it is you know it is and there is always been this undercurrent and people
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push it aside Victoria Woodhull who is the first woman in America to run for
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president and she was a financial genius she was a medium him. She conducted
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seances. She openly. So this is always
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always you know there’s there’s I don’t remember who said it. It’s it’s a saying that you know millionaires don’t consult
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astrologers but billionaires do. Yeah. Is it is a part of life. I believe I
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don’t know this but I do believe this that what we call witchcraft and
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shamanism these are the earliest human practices and they are our common human
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heritage and they they are at the root of who we are and they are in our DNA
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and to dismiss it and to not take it
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seriously and to sort of push it aside is almost
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like amputating a part of ourselves and it’s not healthy.
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No. And I think it really the difference that I see in people who finally and
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myself included finally find their way back to a spiritual way of life that
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doesn’t involve a big scary sky daddy telling you what to do. Like a real a rooted, genuine, loving, connected way
28:27
to interact with something larger than ourselves. And I do know some beautiful just about the sky daddy. I do know some
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beautiful Christians who who do wonderful work in the world like you know that goes I think those things I think and I mean
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I think that those aspects were imposed by authorities. I don’t think that was the intent the original intent
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I agree of the initial I think I think once people perceive power somebody sort of
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swoops in and exploits that situation. And I’m not telling people not to be skeptics. I could be skeptical, too,
29:03
because you know when I say Victoria Woodhole was a medium and people are thinking, “Aha, all the phony mediums.”
29:09
Well, they’re they’re not phony mediums. They’re con artists pretending to be
29:14
mediums. They’re emulating something. That’s important actually. I hadn’t really thought about it like that. Well, they’re emulating something. Well,
29:21
because every once in a while we have a scandal. I’m sure other people do also where we discover that some pharmacist
29:27
was actually not um you know fulfilling prescriptions accurately. They were
29:32
putting less of the the active ingredient in the you know to save money
29:38
for the they they were making money for themselves and this is disastrous. or
29:43
you know important medications, cancer medications. Every couple years we have and but people don’t go aha,
29:52
you know, a phony pharmacist every all the pharmacists are con artists. They’re not. But you will find con artists among
30:00
con artists looks look for ways to con people and they look for vulnerabilities. And so you do have to,
30:07
you know, be aware of where the cons are. You can ask for a recommendation.
30:14
You can ask for a referral. The way if you ask for a plumber, you know,
30:21
you would want to find a plumber. Well, because they’re performing a service. I’m a card reader and I perceive myself
30:28
as someone who performs a service. Yeah. Same. And so I’m not insulted if people want a
30:36
resume from me. You know, how do we know you are really real? Because you
30:42
wouldn’t stand outside your house and just scream out, “My pipes are breaking.
30:47
Can somebody can some plumber come and fix them?” Because you don’t know who’s going to walk through your door. It’s
30:53
the same thing. And I guess the other side of that then
30:58
it would be also like who walks through. So this is one of the things I wanted to get on to and talked about is like spiritual safety cuz I wanted to get
31:05
your perspective on it. So you’re like you wouldn’t just call out and be like plumber or you know you would like ask
31:10
and you would like build relationships or you would get like recommendations. So when we’re working with like deities or spirits like what’s your what’s your
31:17
like take on that? How do you like ask for a resume? Well, I asked I do
31:22
actually discuss this in my book, Encyclopedia of Spirits because I think it is one of the dangers, you know, the
31:29
the the stereotype of the the of the Ouija board, the spirit board is, you know, you have these kids. Is anybody
31:37
here? Well, I mean, that’s I mean that but it’s the same thing. Do you open all
31:43
your doors and just say, “Is anybody I mean I’m from New York City. You can’t keep your doors open. I I mean I know
31:50
somebody I mean this is many many years ago. A relative she was coming home from the supermarket. She lived in a 16story
31:58
apartment building and some guy like pushed her into the apartment and robbed he was following her. So you know she
32:04
didn’t even have to invite him. He made himself he let himself in. But
32:09
it is something I talk about in detail in encyclopedia spirits. I always recommend working with named spirits.
32:16
You should ask for who you know and you should familiarize yourself with them.
32:22
Spirits who have been around for a long time in in the same way that you know how
32:28
your sister or your best friend, you know how they behave. Like have we’ve
32:34
all, you know, gotten a text that doesn’t sound like the person it’s supposed to be from? And we want that
32:40
kind of familiarity. I wouldn’t just shout out at anybody there, oh, I’m so lonely. come and keep me company that
32:47
that’s because who is hanging around with nothing else to do but bother you
32:53
you know so ask for someone you know I do a lot of ancestor work and then you
33:00
don’t necessarily have to know their names but ancestors are invested in you
33:06
there are no ancestors without descendants that your your well-being is integral to
33:12
their survival so I think ancestors are very good to work with. I work with a
33:19
lot of spirits. It is one of the predominant things that I do. But I I
33:24
know who they are. I ask for someone I know who they are. I I like to me the
33:30
research. I mean, why do I write the encyclopedias? That that is that is a spiritual art to me. It’s like spiritual
33:36
archaeology. You you you go digging and you follow a trail and you see where it leads you, you know. There’s that that
33:43
roomie saying that which you are seeking is causing you to seek. And I love that.
33:48
I love that. And you know when you have these spiritual experiences where you actually do have contact,
33:56
it’s the most profound thrilling experience in the world.
34:01
There’s nothing nothing comparable to that. So that I mean I I would be careful. I
34:08
don’t, you know, I know that there are a lot of rituals. Well, I’m going to cast a circle and I’m
34:15
going to do this, but you know, eventually you’re going to have to come out of the circle, you know, and there are, and that’s not
34:22
me being cynical. There are stories of medieval grimoirs. And I I don’t I don’t
34:27
like the the grimoire, the old grimmoire approach of commanding spirits and
34:32
denigrating spirits. And you know, I’m going to capture spirit and make it do something for me. I I don’t I don’t like
34:40
that. I like I like loving relationships. And I do write about this. I mean, it’s a complex topic and
34:46
we could spend a whole weekend just talking about this, but I don’t I don’t but you know there are all these you are
34:52
trying to command something that can do more than you can do. And so there are
34:58
command god. Right. Right. Right. So, you know, there were all these stories about, you know,
35:03
eventually the magicians stepped out of the circle or the circle was somehow broken and this, you know, whatever that
35:09
spirit was just came down on them and I I don’t want that. Yeah. No, there’s definitely something
35:15
to be said for like reciprocity, being in right relationship, building relationship, you know, I would call
35:21
like the spirits I work with my spiritual team or the guides. Some of them are ancestors and some of them
35:26
allies. Yeah. The allies. Yeah. Yeah. My allies. Yeah. and I don’t work with anybody that I
35:33
don’t that isn’t part of my spiritual team and then if anyone else comes forward who wants to communicate with me
35:38
then they do it through one of those guides and that that’s the way I do it. I mean I am also a bit of an
35:43
existentialist you have to take responsibility for yourself and so you know if someone tells you to jump off a
35:50
bridge would you do it? I mean you know and this is so I mean spirits who tell you to do harmful and negative things
35:57
they are not your friends and you are responsible for your actions and I think it is a very important to know that you
36:02
can say no you know that’s that’s a big magical word no because people often
36:07
have very extremes these things don’t exist therefore
36:13
either you’re crazy or you’re deluded or something or my goddess this is so sacred I have to
36:20
do everything it says and that will just lead you into trouble. And even if it is
36:26
an authentic and real, you know, even your ancestors, they are doing the best for you from
36:33
their perspective. And you have ancestors who are maybe coming from a world centuries ago and they may not
36:41
they may be telling you something very sincerely, but it might not be good for you now. M
36:46
so you you don’t you you should always be polite and respectful but you don’t
36:51
have to be that obedient. Yeah. That’s the thing with witchcraft that I think is the real crux of witchcraft and
36:58
why it gets such negative propaganda. We don’t have to be obedient.
37:04
You have to have to think and do what’s right. Do you feel like that’s like a throwback
37:10
a throwover from Christianity where like you have to be obedient to No, I think it predates that. I think it
37:16
appreciates that. I think as soon as you have a less egalitarian situ I say pagan Rome because people thinks it starts
37:22
with Christianity but Christian Christianity inherited a lot of that from pagan Rome. Pagan Rome is a
37:30
military Rome after the Caesars after the kings you know starting with you know it becomes a very military
37:37
society. Women have no rights and people have to behave women have to behave. So
37:44
you know the the first witch trials are against the Maynads. And there are historians who believe that European
37:50
witchcraft descends from Mayads who escaped Rome and you know went into the
37:56
forests they headed north and they headed west and that is the roots of modern witchcraft. I mean I don’t know
38:02
if that’s true or not but that’s a theory. So I I think any society where
38:07
where once you have supreme rulers you you have to do what they want and it becomes very difficult to be a shaman or
38:15
a seer because you have a ruler who depends on you for you know good
38:22
accurate information so they can make the proper decisions but also you can’t tell them anything they don’t want to
38:27
hear and that’s a or they will kill you badly
38:33
and so that that becomes a very dangerous thing. I mean, Christianity makes it worse, but they inherited it,
38:40
too. Interesting. I think a lot of things go back to Rome, you know. And of course, the goddess
38:45
Diana, who was originally the um their supreme goddess.
38:52
And then as they became more structured and organized and
38:58
militaristic, she gets demoted and Juno becomes the
39:04
supreme goddess. You can watch this how, you know, as the pantheons change because Diana becomes a goddess of
39:11
wildness and women and slaves and, you know, the disenfranchised.
39:16
She’s a disreputable goddess. We like those. But she wasn’t always, you know, this is a society changes.
39:23
They looked at her differently. She’s a free woman. Yeah. Yeah. That Yeah. Oh, so many
39:30
questions or so many like thoughts that could come from that. What direction will we go in? How do you
39:38
So, there’s a lot that you were talking about there to do with like the denigration of women and obviously
39:44
witches were very often women. And how do you feel? I always like to think I always like to try and talk about how we
39:51
feel things are changing for the better because it can be a bit much. We all know how things have been for women.
39:58
Things I think it is. It is changed for the better because look, you and I are sitting here
40:04
talking about this. We could not have done that aundred years ago. Maybe not
40:09
even 50 years ago. And I don’t mean because of the technology. No, I mean
40:15
because the public aspect, you and I can sit here and discuss this. Um,
40:22
you know, we, you and I publish books about witchcraft. I write practical
40:28
books teaching people how to cast spells, how to work with spirits, how to
40:38
do these things. And I, you know, I’m I’m bad with numbers. So, it’s not until
40:44
the, you know, the early 1950s in the UK that the the last Witchcraft laws are
40:51
repealed. Gerald Gardner, Dion Fortune, they were writing novels
40:56
and insinuating their material into the novels because they could not write a
41:02
practical how-to book that presented witchcraft in a positive way. And so
41:08
this is much better. We don’t have to worry. No one is knocking on our door to arrest us, you and me. Maybe someplace
41:15
else, but you know, I mean, there are I mean, we’re going to be positive, so we’re not going to say that there are
41:20
places in the world where that is not true. Yeah. But but for right now, for you and me,
41:25
we we can have this conversation and go about our lives, and we don’t expect anybody to knock on our door and arrest
41:30
us for saying nice things about witches. Yeah, witches. So, 100% better.
41:36
100% better. It really is. We We have come out of the closet. We have come out of the shadows. I
41:42
Do you think that Do you think that there’s like So, one of the things I found for myself working with working in
41:50
shamanism, core shamanism specifically, and then moving on to Celtic spirituality and folk magic based in
41:57
Scotland mostly. What I find is that I find some pockets of like really
42:03
grounded, sensible people who Yeah. I trust.
42:08
Yeah. And then I also find lots of pockets of crazy. Yeah. What what would you But what what
42:15
what I like to talk about on my podcast sometimes is like how do we as magical
42:21
practitioners support people to bring magic into day-to-day life and not to
42:26
like use it to escape our lives and not to use it to like avoid life. You know,
42:31
we we are people. We’re souls in a body. We’re here doing work. So how do we like
42:36
make magic part of our everyday life in an in an easier way perhaps than some people like because we don’t have
42:43
elders. We don’t have people to ask. So what would you say to people? No. And and maybe a lot of our elders
42:48
came from times where they could not be as open as we are. So there there’s
42:54
another side to that even you know I mean there are some elders
43:00
out there but sometimes you have to go looking for them because they come from a time when you could not just you know
43:07
hang a shingle out you know witch consult me how do you do it I think you
43:13
just have to do it is you have to immerse yourself I would encourage
43:19
people to read everything they can get their hands hands on. Don’t just read
43:24
what reflects what you already believe back at you. Read things that annoy you and then ask yourself why they annoy
43:30
you. What is it that annoys you about it? Because it will help you find your path. Take as many classes as you can.
43:38
You know, if you have a local witch shop, port them. Go in there. I mean, I
43:44
learned a lot as a te I mean, but I’m from the New York City area, New York City in the area. And at that time, as I
43:50
was saying, real estate is not what it is now. There were botanas in every
43:56
corner in upper Manhattan. I used to just go and hang out and absorb and I
44:05
learned so much from very unassuming people just people who are living their
44:11
magic every day. everything you do you know there are different ways of doing
44:16
it and there’s no wrong here it is what makes your life better depending on what your life so I mean I don’t like to
44:23
criticize anybody because there are people and maybe we have all had a period in our life where you celebrate a
44:31
sabbath sin is coming that’s you know that’s the big one and maybe you spend your whole year looking forward to that
44:38
or you do the full moons and you have your ritual and you are having your
44:44
magical moment in maybe an otherwise not too magical life. And if that is what
44:50
works for you, you know, that’s your life. We’re all different. But you can
44:56
also start to bring that magic into everything you do. When you are cooking,
45:02
which way are you turning your spoon? Which way? What are you cooking? What is in the pot? What are the magical
45:09
properties? just sort of open your eyes and your ears and your senses. And if
45:16
you that might be something you’re doing already and some people have families like that or it might be something where
45:23
you’re starting little by little but it it will benefit you. It will it will even if you are not casting spells just
45:31
living magically in my experience will
45:37
improve your life. You will become empowered. You will be able to hear the
45:44
undertones in people’s voices. Do they really want the best for you? And often
45:50
people who love you, then they sincerely love you, but that love is somewhat
45:55
conditional. They love you and they want you to be like this kind of they don’t want you to change for whatever. And it
46:02
might not be for malicious reasons. You know, people people have their own
46:07
baggage. And you know so it it will it will help you untangle the nets around you. It
46:16
will help you be independent. It will help you understand yourself better. But
46:21
it’s just ask yourself a lot of questions. Why
46:27
I’m in a room. Why why are the colors this color? Do they make me happy? What does it you know what does that mean for
46:33
me? What what am I wearing? I mean, you’ll see I wear I almost always when
46:39
I’m speaking have a lot of blue around my throat. I have no air in my chart and I compensate for that, you know, and
46:46
blue stones for people they are for for the throat chakra. So, you know, but
46:51
that’s for me what’s for you. So, you know, I would recommend that everyone get their I’m going to give you a
46:56
preview of my class. Everyone should you can get do do a free chart for yourself
47:02
even if you don’t know anything about astrology. Break your chart down into the elements. Do you have a lot of
47:08
water? Do you not have any earth? What does that mean for you? And just think
47:15
witchcraft is despite all this stuff about woo witchcraft shamanism it’s for
47:21
smart people. You don’t have to be an educated person. That that’s a different
47:26
thing. You don’t have to have a PhD, but it will make you smarter and you
47:31
will grow from there. And so I I I think that these magical arts have persisted
47:39
and they’ve persisted for a reason and it is beneficial for us to be living a
47:46
magical life in whatever way is best and possible
47:51
for the individual. But yeah, couldn’t agree more. Couldn’t agree more. You mentioned saw. It’s coming. It’s coming.
47:58
It’s coming. The energy is The energy is I can’t you feel it.
48:04
Even it’s not it’s not quite October, but I can feel it. No, I’m like um what’s really cool about
48:10
some of the some of the my new books coming out actually in January and that’s the Celtic Wheel of the Year. So,
48:17
of me, too. But in that book I do a lot of talking about like what’s ancient,
48:23
what we know is ancient, what we know is medieval, what we know is more modern because you know there are there’ve been additions and stuff. People get really,
48:30
you know, one of the things I talk about online a lot is like the other day we had
48:35
Mabon which is not called Babon. It’s like the autumn equinox. The Mabon is a Welsh god who has nothing to do with the
48:42
equinox and was added but lots of people love it which is great. But what I found
48:48
is that people who love it also appreciate knowing its roots. So that’s what the book’s about. It’s not about you. It’s like here’s here are the
48:55
things. Here are the here’s the rhythm. Here’s the evolution. This is what it looks like. And how does how do you then
49:01
add what you love to this wheel? Anyway, my point is, sorry I’m going off topic. My point is that in ancient sin
49:10
in Scotland was predominantly concerned with protection. That was the main
49:15
thing. They were like protection from the supernatural protection. And I’ve noticed that your new oracle deck is
49:22
called protection spells. So I thought maybe that would be a good segue into
49:27
talk about it. Now I know that you very kindly sent me one, but it hasn’t arrived yet. So you’re going to do the
49:33
Well, there are two of them. Show. I I am going to do the show and tell. This is the protection spell stick. Um, and I
49:39
love that this one came out in June and I inadvertently, as I was saying to you, I woke up one morning and discovered I
49:46
was a deck creator. I believe this is the one that’s on its way to you. The magic spells.
49:51
That’s the one. That’s right. Yeah. Well, this will be out in October. So, it’s it’s it’s on the threshold of
49:58
being published, but I can talk about either of them. Protection spells. Let’s do both cuz I love decks.
50:05
Yeah. Protection spells is a little mini deck. As you can see, it’s tiny. There’s no book. 36 cards. They talked me into
50:11
doing it with the snakes and the moons because I love snakes and moons. So, you
50:17
get you have 36 cards all with the different backs. And on the front, they have they have spells. And one of the
50:25
things I like about oracle decks is I have no air signs, but I have a lot of water signs and I’m a very fluid person
50:30
and I don’t like to follow rules. And I cast spells with tarot cards. So, but
50:36
people are often very this is what you do with a tarot card and this is what you do with a Lenoran card, but oracle
50:41
decks could be anything. So, I like that we we don’t have to um you don’t have to
50:46
pretend. I know you can you can pull a card for yourself in moments of anxiety.
50:52
You can give it to someone who maybe needs some protection, magical protection. And I always emphasize
50:59
magical protection is not the same as hiring an armed guard. You know, it is not the same as putting a an alarm in
51:06
your home. It is spiritual protection. It is magical protection. It can help
51:12
reinforce all those things. But if you if you genuinely need a bodyguard, you
51:17
need a bodyguard. You know, a little deck of cards is not a replacement for that. But it can help you
51:24
learn how to protect yourself, learn how to align yourself with the universe.
51:29
It’s it’s original material and cards, you know, are like books that are not bound. And one of the things you can do
51:36
with this is teach yourself protection magic. And so it it is like it is a it
51:41
is a nice basic deck. It is I’m not going to say it’s not esoteric because magic by definition is esoteric. But I I
51:49
tried to keep it accessible. It is very reasonably priced. And so I tried to
51:55
keep the spells also things that are reasonably priced, things that are accessible for someone who maybe doesn’t
52:03
have a fortune to spend on spells, but you know, because everything because I’m
52:08
old and everything I remember what things used to cost decades ago. It’s shocking what things cost now. Magic
52:15
Spells Oracle is a more traditional oracle. This is my It hasn’t even come
52:20
out yet. I’m giving you like a preview here. When you open it, there are ravens everywhere.
52:27
And there’s there is a book in this one. There is there’s a traditional book.
52:33
It’s a bit bigger than than some like a little white book. And it goes through all the cards. You can
52:40
pick a a card a day. This one, it is original material, but it is derived
52:45
from 5,000 spells. I worked with the team uh Harper Collins UK who um were
52:51
the ones who first published 5,000 spells and we have 36 cards divided into
52:58
30 maybe it’s more than the I don’t even I don’t even remember um I told you I wasn’t good with numbers they’re divided
53:04
into four elements um like the astrological signs earth and air and fire and water. So, here we have a lamp.
53:12
That’s a fire card. Let’s uh here we’ve got the evil.
53:18
How do you choose the art for these? How do you choose the art? Do you do it or no? Well, a little. I didn’t choose the
53:25
art, but I had veto rights. I worked on both decks with Katherine Sky Peek who is the creative director of Wiser Books
53:31
and who is just brilliant and she’s an artist and she’s the one who is you know supervises all the cover art for Wiser
53:38
Books and I love working with her and we’re we’re you know we’ve become friends over the years worked on um we
53:45
worked on the wiser tarot together I worked on the book and she she supervised the art so we we’re
53:53
partners in tribe I would say I could say we’re a a team, but we are partners in crime. And so this one, you can pull a card a
54:00
day for yourself. You can see how your day is going. You can teach yourself about elemental magic with this deck.
54:07
There are also spreads that you can do. I think you can use these decks to help
54:15
make your life more magical. Protection spells is very targeted. It’s on a specific
54:22
topic, but I mean, who doesn’t need protection? Everybody could use a little protection. Yeah. People ask me like when I when I
54:30
when I teach I do teach spellcasting classes, where do you start? And
54:36
easy places to start cleansing spells and money spells. Cleansing spells
54:41
because you have to because a lot of spells when you cast them, you don’t know right away if they worked. But
54:47
cleansing spells, you know, a cleansing ritual, you should feel cleansed when it’s done. So you should feel it. You
54:54
should have that sort of immediate impact. And I know people get uncomfortable with money. But the thing
55:01
with money spells is you can tell whether it worked. I don’t mean a prosperity spell like a genuine prosperity, which is just having a
55:08
prosperous way of life. But sometimes you need $100. Sometimes you need to
55:14
make the rent. And you can you can give yourself goals. Let me let’s see if I
55:20
can come up with $36. And you can somebody needs that money. You can give
55:25
it to give it to your dog shelter. Give it to a charity. Give it to someone who
55:30
who you know there are so many people if if you are uncomfortable magicking up
55:36
money for yourself. There are so many good causes you could give it to.
55:42
So but you can see can you do it? Can you do it? And that is a good way to
55:48
learn. But protection spells also because everybody could use a little more spiritual protection. That’s not
55:55
that’s not a you know it’s just good hygiene. Yeah, very much like does everybody need
56:00
a low spell? Probably not. That’s a headache for some people. Does everyone need like healing spells? Well, you
56:07
know, maybe you don’t have anything that needs to be healed. But protection you
56:12
will know if anyone has not read the novel the conjure wife. It is the
56:20
novel that is the basis of the movie burn witch burn which is the name of another novel but they appropriated the
56:28
uh the name of one for the movie but it is it is in that book you will see what
56:33
happens when the protection spells are cease. That’s and I’m going to write that that
56:38
one down. It’s an old novel. Very I’m quite a reader, so I’m always
56:44
looking for new things to read. So, it’s an old pulp novel. Oh, okay. Right. Well, I’m looking
56:51
forward to having a read of that. What else did I want to ask? I want to make sure that I’m not like missing any of my questions here. So,
56:59
what do you when you hold a class, do you like when you’re like teaching, do
57:05
you like hold an intention for the class or do you just like show up and people?
57:11
I hold an intention for myself. I hold an intention for myself to be
57:18
articulate and helpful and to provide the information that people
57:25
desire or need. That is and and to and to be patient and because sometimes when
57:32
we are looking at the clock or we know we you know we have all kinds of
57:38
concerns. Sometimes you don’t catch the quiet person who is trying to ask a
57:45
question without really asking the question. So I tr I do hold that
57:51
intention for myself. Everybody comes with their own needs and I try to do my
57:58
best to fulfill them if they’re for good, you know. Yeah. as long as they’re not like
58:04
sometimes sometimes I find when I hold classes or there’s the whole like we talked about this in my last interview
58:10
actually with Laura as well but like we’re talking about like the pedestal problem cuz I don’t want to be on a
58:17
pedestal cuz it’s quite a far away fall frankly so there’s almost like a I’ll
58:23
often work with the intention that I’m exactly what you’ve said I’m there to support and allow what needs to come
58:29
through to come through but also to connect as as a circle really and not as a pyramid and to
58:36
support people not to support people to take responsibility for themselves and
58:41
for the place that they hold and the power that they hold. I’m always like find myself pushing it back. I’m like,
58:46
“No, that’s not mine. That’s yours. You do that. That’s that’s how you are. That’s what you can do.”
58:52
I learn a lot every time I teach a class. I learn a lot from someone. Yeah. You know, same. So it it it is a
59:00
reciprocal and I I feel that there is a spiritual aspect to it depending on what
59:06
I’m teaching. I am working on behalf
59:12
someone being some force some energy. So I I try to keep that perspective.
59:19
Yeah. Is there anything that you like go with when you’re like holding space or
59:24
are you just at the stage now where you’re like this is good. I’m fine. I mean, I look back sometimes and I have
59:29
to pinch myself. I mean, I, you know, in my heart, I’m still a 15year-old, but I
59:34
mean, my joints tell me otherwise. I mean, I, we all have our journeys and
59:39
our paths, and it took English is not my first language. It took me a long time
59:46
to learn to speak it well. It was a lot of work, a lot of time, and until I was
59:52
in my it was very hard for me to speak with someone I didn’t already know. This
59:59
conversation would have been very difficult, if not impossible for me. I
1:00:04
mean, I was accent as well. No, no, no. That’s that that’s that’s not hard. I grew up with people with
1:00:10
English and broken accent. So that’s not I mean if you have a good ear occasionally people will hear
1:00:18
the undertones of mine you know underneath all Yeah. Because I can hear the undertones of New York but I can also hear that I
1:00:24
can hear the undertones of other things as well. And it’s quite interesting. Do you think in English now? Do you think in English now?
1:00:30
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Although I am, it’s an interesting thing because
1:00:36
I think in English and I also don’t think in English because a lot of when people speak to you and when they’re
1:00:42
speaking to you in your native language, you just understand it. You’re not you don’t have to think about it. And I am
1:00:50
relearning Hungarian now. And it’s so interesting because that’s although a
1:00:57
lot of it is repressed and it’s coming out, when I understand it, I don’t think about it. I just if you say something to
1:01:04
me in Hungarian, I just do it. As opposed to, you know, I my college
1:01:09
freshman roommate spoke Spanish with her mother and I, you know, I studied
1:01:15
French, so I would take her Spanish, translate it into French in my head, translate it into English. I knew
1:01:21
exactly what she was saying about me. Although she thought she was, you know, being secret. That’s fascinating. And so you your
1:01:27
first language was Hungarian. Yeah. And then you forgot it is what you’re
1:01:32
saying cuz you’re saying forgot it. I I not forgot it. I went to school at age five. I spoke very poor English and
1:01:40
children are not kind. And I came home from school at 5 years old and I told my
1:01:45
parents and my adult sister that if they wanted me to respond to them, they were
1:01:52
going to have to speak to me in English or I wasn’t going to. You know, my little stubborn Scorpio moon was speak
1:02:00
to me in English or we’re not speaking. And I I basically refused to speak
1:02:05
anything but English. So it is not that I forgot it, it’s that I I mean it’s in
1:02:12
my brain somewhere and I I know because you’re reminding your front brain about it. Not to give dual lingo an ad, but I’m
1:02:18
doing dual lingo and I mean it’s it’s so is it just like reme remembering?
1:02:24
You’re like, “Oh yeah, you’re remembering.” It is It’s not even remembering. It’s it’s like it’s like tapping into oil or
1:02:31
or water. like you’re looking for a well and you don’t know where it is, but when
1:02:37
you hit it, it just comes flowing out. It’s there, you know? It’s it’s not a
1:02:43
forgotten thing. It’s like the thing that you have shoved to the back of your
1:02:50
mind and you have just moved on and it’s there. You’re just not using it. So it
1:02:58
it I do react the same way I react in English. Like if you say to me
1:03:05
stand up, I don’t have to think about that. I’m just going to do it. Like you know, I mean the way you know I’ve had
1:03:11
dogs like you say sit, that dog just sits. I mean a well-trained dog just, you know, well does a well-trained dog.
1:03:18
Yeah. Well, I mean my dog would sit and then stand right up again. Stay was difficult.
1:03:24
It’s it’s there. And I think a lot of but I think that’s true with a lot of witchcraft practice and a lot of ancestral practices. I think a lot of
1:03:32
that is stored in our bones. It’s stuff that we have
1:03:38
we’re carrying it with us and we may not even know it’s there anymore, but when you sort of it’s like you tap
1:03:45
into it, it’s just going to come flowing out. So many people describe it like that. That’s such a good way to
1:03:52
Yeah. remind people that it’s all there. It’s all in your learning. It’s not like we’re going to another planet and we
1:03:58
have to learn something that is totally new or you know I am you want to learn a
1:04:04
language that is completely different you know like as I said I I
1:04:09
can translate Spanish into French into English but if you what if you’re you’re learning Basque something that is not
1:04:17
related to anything else or to learn something that is using a different alphabet or you know that Then you have
1:04:25
to then it becomes a thought process. But a lot of things are in our bones and
1:04:31
we will just react to them and we will just when when you hit the spot you’re you’re
1:04:36
going to be able to do it. Yeah. Love it. I love it. Yeah. I am really
1:04:42
excited about our gathering of the season in a few weeks. This is going to be amazing. And just to let people know,
1:04:47
you are doing your earthier, fire, water work, the elements work. I am. I’m opening I’m opening the event
1:04:53
uh Friday um and I am doing a workshop on
1:04:59
elemental magic but it’s not a beginners I mean it is a beginner’s you don’t have to have any knowledge to take the class
1:05:05
you can just come to the class you don’t need to know anything because no it’s accessible to everyone but it’s not just
1:05:11
well this is fire and this is water it is it is a little bit of a reflection of
1:05:17
my journey in creating these cards because I do But I had a conversation with someone yesterday who was saying
1:05:24
that her pathway into the magical arts was through elemental magic. It wasn’t
1:05:29
for me. It was something I was aware of and I knew, but it wasn’t my opening. But I was not the one who said, “Let’s
1:05:36
do a deck based on the elements.” my team, my wonderful team at Harper
1:05:42
Collins, my editor, Caitlyn Doyle, who is just, you know, wonderful, suggested
1:05:50
that we do it this way. And I like collaboration and it really made me have
1:05:57
to think because it’s not easy to divide things into elements beyond the obvious,
1:06:05
oh, there’s fire, oh, there’s water. But you know even in water there are plants
1:06:11
inside most living water there you know there’s all sorts of stuff. What does it
1:06:17
mean to have you know lead in our in in our you know now we have a metal and
1:06:23
earth in our in our water supply. What do all these things mean? And so and and
1:06:29
what does it mean on a personal level? Because my personal elemental makeup has
1:06:36
been a large part of my life. What I I I was born with no air in my chart which I
1:06:43
will explain during the class. But you know what I was describing
1:06:48
speech communication has been an issue for me my whole life. So it is a
1:06:54
reflection of that and and if you look at the elements in any individual’s life
1:06:59
I think I think you’ll get a lot of insight to who you are how you came here
1:07:04
how are you wired and how do you balance that in order to achieve the life that
1:07:12
you would like to lead and isn’t that what it’s all about Rhonda what are you teaching is the life
1:07:17
yes oh I am teaching I’m teaching um what am I teaching I’m doing the Erh,
1:07:24
I’m teaching I’m going teach that many things. H the Morgan at Sawin. So we’re doing some information about Sawan.
1:07:30
We’re going to meet the Morgan. We’re going to do some deep work there. I’m looking forward to kind of uncovering the hidden parts that
1:07:36
might be ready to reappear. I was, you know, people might not know
1:07:41
this, but in addition to See, I can’t talk. In addition to being
1:07:46
an author, I’m an editor. I edited Courtney Weber’s book on the Morgan. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, that’s Yeah, the
1:07:54
Morgan is like quite powerful. She’s like show doesn’t come often, but for me, but when she does, it’s like, okay,
1:08:02
that’s okay. I look forward to that. Yeah, I know. It’s great. It’s it’s great. And you know, the it’s always
1:08:08
really um the witches because it’s like a different set of people who come to that than I normally work with. It’s a
1:08:15
different energy and I really enjoy it. I really enjoy the energy that people bring. So, I’m really looking forward to it. I think it’s going to be great. It’s
1:08:21
always nice to have a different group of people, not always the same. I mean, there’s pros and cons. It’s nice to go
1:08:27
to a class where you have the same group of people because you progress together in a way and you get to know each other,
1:08:33
but also it’s nice to have that the the fresh minds and the fresh voices, fresh
1:08:38
eyes. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Well, thank you, Jira.
1:08:43
Thank you, Rhonda. Real pleasure. Hope you’ve enjoyed our chat. I’ve really enjoyed it. I’ve learned some stuff.
1:08:50
Likewise. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. And I I look forward to seeing you uh talk about the Morgan.
1:08:57
Yeah. And likewise, I’ll be diving into the elements, although I’ll be on replay because I will be in my bed when you do
1:09:05
it, which is the joy of having replays. You can just watch them the next day. Right. Right. Right. Right.
1:09:11
All right, everybody. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks to Judica. You can find Judica. Tell us where we can find
1:09:16
you, Judah, on Oh my gosh. the poor damaged website, but you can find me on Instagram. You
1:09:22
can find me on Facebook. You can find me uh you know, I still call it Twitter. I’m on LinkedIn.
1:09:27
Oh, I’m not even on LinkedIn. Amazing. Come and play with me. I was on LinkedIn. I don’t know what I’m doing there.
1:09:34
I I honestly don’t I don’t really know what I’m doing there, but I I you know, found myself there. So, here.
1:09:40
So, what I’ll do is I’ll put all the all your links I’ll grab your links off. Yeah, we’ll put them all in the show
1:09:46
notes. So, if you want to find Judica, you can. But actually, just Google her name and she’ll come up, frankly, cuz
1:09:51
she’s that happy. All right. Thanks everybody. It’s been a real pleasure. Thanks for listening and we’ll speak to
1:09:57
you soon. Bye everybody.